Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I think it might have gotten lost in the huge posts. You said "If you're still looking for a gorgeous snake to admire from a hands off perspective, there are plenty of non-venomous that while they can't do you serious harm, they can still stare through you and have a marvelous intensity." and I said "I am. What do you recommend ". Hoping you or someone else has an answer. definitely interested in other species than corn snakes and ball pythons.
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1.0 alb. okeetee "Grissom"
1.0 American Pit Bull Terrier "Vanyel"
0.1 Somali "Willow"

Good question. I confess your answers will differ from person to person. What resonates with one person won't do anything for another. I'll list some snakes roughly according to skill category, and hopefully something manageable will catch your interest.

Novice:
Gopher bull and pinesnakes are bascially the classic "snake" in appearance, rough scaled, varying earth colors, med-heavy bodied. 3-7 ft depending on species. Can't exactly stare through someone, but are generally good tempered and have marvelous physical strength.

Some american rat snake morphs. Not all that intense, but high on the "neat" factor. For example, a leucistic black rat snake is a pure white snake with the potential of reaching 8 ft or so.

Garter snakes. Don't laugh too hard. Elegant, graceful, alert, and fast enough to teleport across the cage if they feel the need. If you come across the Aug 05 issue of Reptiles, check out the CA red sided garter photo on page 24. Stunning.

Basic intermediate

Carpet pythons, especially Jungle Carpet Python. The JCP reaches 6 feet give or take, and if from a good line, matures to a lovely black and yellow contrasting pattern. Homicidal maniacs when babies, but most grow out of it to be ok for handling. Deliberate, calm powerful movers. Even just lurking on a high shelf they're awesome. Humidity/caging requirements.

Green Tree Python, in the same family (Morelia) as the JCP. Scary looking face, can accept handling in the daytime. In the night, they expect food. Beautiful animals, and good at lurking. Humidity/caging requirements. Snakehook is friend.

Advanced Intermediate: capable of doing damage.

Indigo snakes, the largest snake native to North America. Intelligent for a snake, top of foodchain and knows it, beautiful, alarmingly powerful and generally docile with humans. Regretably endangered in their native habitat, difficult to captive breed, big waiting list and maybe as much as 1K for a cb youngster. Illegal in some states due to endangered status and I've heard they pack one hell of a bite. Still very, very awesome.

Vietnamese blue beauty snake, Gorgeous denim blue with black mesh pattern and black marks across eyes. Grows 8-10 feet. Fast and active. Can be highstrung and skittish.

Amethystine python, I handled a 7 ft youngster who was unusually docile once and I'm still trying to pick my jaw off the floor. Most intense snake I've ever encountered. Light brown/tan colors with purple/blue iridescence. Very, very, powerful animal. Poise like a dragon. One of the five largest constrictors. Has been recorded at 28 ft? (I think) but some localities don't surpass 10 feet. In Morelia family same as GTP and JCP. I think I'm biased. Varying attitude towards handling, depending on prior experience etc. Can be nasty! Slender animal.

Hope this helps with what's out there. I highly recommend meeting a few of whatever species interests you. Sorry if I missed anyone's favorite. Please pitch in guys.
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0.1 chickens (Condor)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

Everyone I talk to has the attitude of "I like them 'cause they're snakes but am beyond them now". They're great little snakes, Most people probably saw a garter snake before any other species, and they're worth a "special place" because of that alone. They tend to not be mentioned at all anymore.

i am interested in the carpet python and indigo snake. im afraid if i got an indigo i would not be able to keep my hands off it how docile are they, if handled a lot? easy keepers? easy breeders? friendly? intelligent? thanks
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1.0 alb. okeetee "Grissom"
1.0 American Pit Bull Terrier "Vanyel"
0.1 Somali "Willow"

I had the opportunity to handle a 5 ft juvenile male Eastern indigo once. He was docile, calm and when he wanted some privacy, he started crawling under my jacket. That, talking to people and reading are my only info sources for them. I've heard they're pretty mellow, relatively straightforward to keep, very difficult to breed. (big demand, small supply so they're pricey) I believe that Rob Carmichael works with them. You could probably ask him, though if that starts a new thread, please point me to it.

Both the carpet and indigo have their own forums, (the carpet python forum might be called the Morelia forum but I'm not sure) I'm frankly not very familiar either of those marvelous species.

Yup Ryan, it's a damn shame that garter snakes are so underrated. They just have such an alert and graceful way of moving! Possibly the only snake type that a beginner can care for safely that moves that way. Even the very common types are lovely to watch. A wild one I chased off the road had shining golden eyes, a ruby tongue, and moved like a little water ripple. Those who turn their noses up at them, don't know what they're missing.
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0.1 chickens (Condor)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

Eastern Indigoes are as close to being non biters as you can find. They are, however, high maintenance animals. Cage cleaning will be your life. The jaws are particularly powerful because they do not constrict. If one does bite, it would be painful.

~~Greg~~

You want beautiful, intense and Non V?

Gonysoma (red tailed ratsnakes) are beautiful and frequently aggressively defensive (very dramatic coiling and neck swelling).

Plus there's that cool blue tongue!

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

Amayon,

Carpet pythons are fantastic snakes. Many will say that they are 'bitey as hell' as hatchlings/juveniles, but there are also many that never even get defensive. I have kept two carpets and two diamonds (regarding sentiment, they can basically be considered as the same snake). None have ever even struck at me since the time I bought them (2 of which I bought as hatchlings, 1 as a young juvenile, and one as a yearling). Just consdier that the 'bitier' ones are usually easier to get feeding, and calm down within a couple of weeks of regular handling anyways. (my point - just don't let this put you off)

Be aware that all advice you might receive in threads regarding what snake is appropriate will have exceptions (regarding vens and non-vens). When somebody says they're 'docile', that is only suggested as a general rule. There will always be the odd snake here or there, and vice versa.

I know nothing of indigos other than what i've picked up in the forum (but they look like a beautiful snake).

Anyways, good luck in your choice - but just remember, one or two snakes is never enough!

Finally - i hope you heard some good arguments below. Just note that I respect the opinions of many people here, and just because my opinion differs doesn't mean that i don't appreciate the help i received or that I don't respect those who gave it to me. When/if you ever think your ready to keep hots, the men and women here are a great resource who, for the most part, will offer appropriate advice. Just be aware that, if you do choose to buy a hot, it's a good idea to form some sort of relationship with whoever you buy it from. That way, you'll always have someone as a sort of 'security blanket' after you make the purchase. If someone wants to sell you a hot, make sure that that person is responsible, and enquires about the type of person you are, and the attitude you have. That shows that they're more interested in your safety than the sale.

Cheers, and good luck.
Aaron.

carpet pythons seem to be more affordable, i may go that route

i already said im not getting a venomous, and gave very very good reasons why. you think your racking up any points trying to encourage me to do something dangerous? eesh
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1.0 alb. okeetee "Grissom"
1.0 American Pit Bull Terrier "Vanyel"
0.1 Somali "Willow"

Amayon, of course it's dangerous. I never suggested it wasn't. And I wasn't encouraging you to do it, i'm sorry if you took it that way. I was just saying, i hope you learned something from the mess below. I don't really give two hoots whether you buy one or not. It makes not a spec of difference to me.

That said - carpets are great. Just keep in mind that they can be pricey (in my terms) when you're going for near perfect specimens (i.e. well bred jungles and diamonds - though note that diamonds are not technically carpets). Though, I think that most localities have great colouration, etc.

There's a wealth of info in the pythons:morelia board, on all aspects. Size, feeding, husbandry, absolutely everything. I would suggest going back to the very first posts and reading the whole board. You'll learn virtually everything there is to know.

Also note, as adults they're gonna need to be fed adult rats (depending on what type of carpet/diamond you get, maybe bigger). That can become quite pricey to feed if you end up with 2 or 3 carpets (one's just not enough!)(once again, pricey for me anyways). My main advice - make sure you see the one you plan on buying eat first (or at least photos of it with a full belly). They can sometimes be little buggers to get started.

But, at the end of the day, they're the type of snake that you can feel 100% comfortable around if raised properly. Continual handling (anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour or so out of the cage every two or three days is great). I often put mine over a chair in front of the fire - they make great 'companion' type snakes (others will disagree with me here and say that overhandling is stressful, etc. It's gonna depend on the nature of each individual snake, and what you think is best.) And, like i said, i've never once been struck at.

Anyways, if you get a carpet, make sure you post some pics and let us see!

Have a good one,
Aaron.
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Happy Herping