Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted this in the main forum before I realized there was a sub-forum dedicated to sulcatas.

HELP!

I have a 40 lb male sulcata tortoise. I live in Sunny So Cal.

I feed him grass, greens and add some fruits and other veggies.

He spends most of his time either eating or running the perimeter of his enclosure looking for ways to escape.

For the past few days he has not been eating (well a tiny bite here and there) and has been very lethargic.

He has never, not eaten food given him, and this concerns me. Just prior to his loss of appetite, I fed him a LARGE meal of hand-cut grass, a banana, two tomatoes, and some romaine.

The next day when he did not eat, I figured he might actually be "full" for the first time in his life. Now it is the fourth day with little or no eating. I am concerend!

He did have a bowel-movement a couple days ago (after the loss of appetite situation began), but nothing since.

My concern is that he may have an impacted GI tract. Another concern I have is that I fertilized the grass a few weeks ago with a typical lawn fertilizer. I watered it well and waited a week before I fed any grass to my tortoise...did I maybe not wait long enough? Have I poisoned him????

I have an appointment to see a local vet who specializes in reptiles.

If anyone out there has any thoughts...please post 'em here.

Thank you!

rsmith

>> I fed him a LARGE meal of hand-cut grass, a banana, two tomatoes, and some romaine.

That may be part of the problem, the fruit. Sulcata tortoises don't need to eat fruit because it ferments in their gut, causing problems for them. Bananas are a fruit that can cause constipation in all animals, including humans.
He may be impacted so it's a good thing to see the vet. Because they are a grassland tortoise where fruits aren't in their natural environment he shouldn't get it to eat in captivity.
Have you ever had him tested for parasites? That can cause major GI upset.

My own tortoise grazes as yours does, then one year our tree that we'd never been able to ID suddenly developed fruit for the first time. It turned out the tree is a white mulberry, which I didn't even know exists. It's leaves look completely different from our fruitless mulberry trees, we just had no idea what this thing was.
She ate a few mulberries off the ground before I could stop her & it upset her stomach terribly. Hours later I could hear her stomach rumbling, then I heard her in her house belching very loudly.
I was on my knees for an hour picking up all the berries off the ground. She remembered this though & when she happened upon a berry again she smelled it then ignored it.

Spineless cactus would be better as a treat for him. We planted some but it's still not grown enough to harvest so I buy napolitos, or sometimes they're labled napoles at the grocery store for mine. That's cut & ready to eat cactus packaged for humans, sold in all the grocery stores here but in some areas of the USA you may need to look for a Mexican market specialty shop to find them. Prickly pear cactus berries seem to be a fruit they can have that doesn't upset them if they don't get too many. Those can be found in grocery stores here as well but because they grow naturally in our enviroment we take a road trip every Sept. & pick them ourselves. If you have access to them somehow, they'd be ok for him to eat.

Please let us know what the vet says, what the vet does & how this turns out for you. Then avoid fruits as much as you can.
Good luck!
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PHRatz

"That may be part of the problem, the fruit. Sulcata tortoises don't need to eat fruit because it ferments in their gut, causing problems for them."

I would say that fruit makes up very little of his diet and have never had a problem with it before. I have even fed him a banana in the past as well with out other problems.

"Bananas are a fruit that can cause constipation in all animals, including humans."

My wife told me the same thing....but my vet said that with all the grass he eats that should not be an issue.

"He may be impacted so it's a good thing to see the vet. Because they are a grassland tortoise where fruits aren't in their natural environment he shouldn't get it to eat in captivity."

My vet x-rayed him, and it did not show any impactions or bladder stones.

"Have you ever had him tested for parasites? That can cause major GI upset."

I have never had him tested for parasites since I have never seen any signs of infestation. Also, I give him pumpkin to eat every fall and I have heard that it is a natural de-wormer.

"spineless cactus would be better as a treat for him. We planted some but it's still not grown enough to harvest so I buy napolitos, or sometimes they're labled napoles at the grocery store for mine. That's cut & ready to eat cactus packaged for humans, sold in all the grocery stores here but in some areas of the USA you may need to look for a Mexican market specialty shop to find them. Prickly pear cactus berries seem to be a fruit they can have that doesn't upset them if they don't get too many. Those can be found in grocery stores here as well but because they grow naturally in our environment we take a road trip every Sept. & pick them ourselves. If you have access to them somehow, they'd be ok for him to eat."

On occasion I do buy the cactus leaves (pads) from the local Mexican market and remove the spines and feed them to him. He loves 'em. It is just kind of a hassle to remove the spines, so I do not buy them too often.

"Please let us know what the vet says, what the vet does & how this turns out for you. Then avoid fruits as much as you can.
Good luck!"

I took him to the vet today and he examined him and opened his mouth. The vet said he looked good, and that I could do three things. One, I could take him home and keep an eye on him. He explained the recent cool weather might be making him feel less active. Two, I could get him x-rayed and we could rule out things like GI impaction or bladder stones. I decided to do this and the x-ray turned up nothing. Three, we could start antibiotics...although there was no sign of infection.

Well, as I said I go the x-ray and it showed nothing. I decided to take him home for observation. This week is supposed to be quite warm. If I do not see an improvement in the next week, I will take him back. My vet is a reptile specialist and comes highly recommended.

Thank you for the information and suggestions. I don't know if I agree with you that there should be zero fruit in the diet....but I suppose doing that could not hurt. I will keep you posted.

>
>>My vet x-rayed him, and it did not show any impactions or bladder stones.
That's great news!
>>
>>I have never had him tested for parasites since I have never seen any signs of infestation. Also, I give him pumpkin to eat every fall and I have heard that it is a natural de-wormer.

My tortoise didn't have symptoms either but she was at the vet having her shell worked on when she unloaded so they took the opportunity to test her. She didn't have worms either but she did have a protozoan infection. Pumpkin wouldn't help with that, she lives outside, wild reptiles can spread that so we test her once a month during the warm months now just to be safe. If your tortoise spends any time outdoors grazing it's just a precaution.

>>On occasion I do buy the cactus leaves (pads) from the local Mexican market and remove the spines and feed them to him. He loves 'em. It is just kind of a hassle to remove the spines, so I do not buy them too often.

Really? They don't remove the spines before they sell it?
I feel lucky then, I never find it with spines still on it in the grocery store.

>>I took him to the vet today and he examined him and opened his mouth. The vet said he looked good, and that I could do three things. One, I could take him home and keep an eye on him. He explained the recent cool weather might be making him feel less active. Two, I could get him x-rayed and we could rule out things like GI impaction or bladder stones. I decided to do this and the x-ray turned up nothing. Three, we could start antibiotics...although there was no sign of infection.
>>
>>Well, as I said I go the x-ray and it showed nothing. I decided to take him home for observation. This week is supposed to be quite warm. If I do not see an improvement in the next week, I will take him back. My vet is a reptile specialist and comes highly recommended.
>>
>>Thank you for the information and suggestions. I don't know if I agree with you that there should be zero fruit in the diet....but I suppose doing that could not hurt. I will keep you posted.

Ok great, do keep us posted.
As for agreeing with me lol you don't have to. The Highfield tortoise feeding guide & Sulcata Station both suggest no fruit & after our mulberry fiasco, I decided to go along with what they say. The belching I heard after mine ate that fruit was enough to convince me.
I hope temps are your only problem because we all know how easily that can be corrected. Good luck!
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PHRatz

Well, he ate a handfull of mixed greens last night and another this morning. Both times he did it without the normal ravenous vigor I have become accustomed to. But then again...the fact he is eating tells me he may be feeling better.

Still lethargic. not cruising the yard like he normally does, or attempting to break down the fence....but maybe he seems a tad more active?

Will keep you posted.

It's always nice to get details of what the vet suggests, and what goes on in the clinic. I agree with the path you chose; an empty X-ray is never a wasted X-ray

If your tort is outside, I would expect it would be carrying parasites. Pumpkin may or may not be a natural dewormer, but it's effectiveness isn't well documented; it's not something that I would suggest if deworming was needed.

The best "dewormer" is optimal husbandry. The healthy tortoise is able to keep parasites at bay, and while they will harbour small amounts, these are negligeable.

This brings up something that should at least be thought about. A lot of people keep sulcattas outdoors year round in California. The climate in California is similar to Africa and perhaps adequate, but not the same. Efforts should be made to house these animals where they need the least amount of compromise and thus create optimal husbandry.

Ian

He ate some more today. In addition to the large handful of mixed greens I gave him, I filled a pie tin with hand-cut grass and he ate most of that too.

Also on the plus side...he came to me when he saw me...which he always did...until this problem began. His activity level is still low and he spends most of his day sitting in the shade. Then again, it is scorching hot here the last couple days and I can't blame him for doing that.

He had a bowel movement today. A small one...but that was to be expected.

He seems to be getting back to normal. Eating more and moving more every day. Guess I went to the vet for nothing. But, it did give me some peace of mind. Maybe he had a little cold? Maybe he just didn't feel like eating or moving? Who knows.

Thanks to all who responded. I am definitely not going to be feeding bananas ever again. I don't know if that was the cause...but better safe than sorry.

Glad to hear he's coming out of this.
As for feeling like you went to the vet for nothing I look at it this way:
If it turns out this was a wellness exam then you didn't waste your time or money. IMO there is never anything wrong with having a wellness exam for a pet because if it gives me peace of mind then it's worth it. I'd rather end up paying for not needing the vet than needing him/her.
If I were in your shoes right now then I'd definately want to see if this happens again while he's not eating bananas. If it doesn't then I'd chalk this problem up to that.
Let us know how it goes!
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PHRatz