Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi everyone.

On Aug 14th, I purchased a baby ball at a reptile show. She seemed wonderfully healthy, alert and active. The breeder said she had eaten a couple of times for him, and that she hatched July 11th.

She acted perfectly normal, crusing her cage, climbing on a small branch, and would do the normal ball up when first picked up. Then she'd get comfortable, and explore.

She refused to feed for me until this past Tuesday (the 23rd)afternoon. Constricted the fresh killed rat pinky and took it down no problem. Still acting totally normal (ie: resting on the warm side), Wednesday afternoon she regurgitated the rat pinky. This is where she goes downhill. After she regurged, she just hung out along the long side of her tank, head and upper body in the cool zone, the rest in the warm. She started stargazing yesterday late evening, and retreating to cool parts of the tank. Upon handling her, she stayed tightly balled up. If I uncoiled her, she seemed to have a little difficulty righting herself if I flipped her over. I left her alone, and she coiled up on one of her hides. Around midnight, she had a convulsion, and died.

Would IBD strike and kill that quickly? It couldn't have been anything related to the rat, as I fed my boa two from the same litter, and she's fine. And I didn't immediately refridgerate her body, so I dont think I can get her tested for IBD (according to a vet tech).

The breeder has offered to replace her, as long as I pay shipping. But if anyone thinks this could possibly be IBD, I don't think I will take replacement.

Any and all feedback is welcomed. Thank you in advance.

Franni
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2.0 Ball Pythons
2.3 Bearded Dragons
0.1 Iguana
1.1 Ferrets
0.2 Cats

please tell me what IBD is???? what is it??

Inclusion Body Disease. Its a HIGHLY contagious disease in boids.

You can read about it here: http://www.anapsid.org/ibd.html
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Franni
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2.0 Ball Pythons
0.1 Nicaraguan Boa
2.3 Bearded Dragons
0.1 Iguana
1.1 Ferrets
0.2 Cats

I haven't seen star gazing in person, but from what I've read and heard about it, I don't think that's what yours had. The fact that your ball would right itself after being rolled on its back somewhat rules out stargazing disease, but there are other, more experienced breeders in this forum who should probably commment.

Sorry for your loss.

-- Joe

Thanks Joe.
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Franni
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2.0 Ball Pythons
0.1 Nicaraguan Boa
2.3 Bearded Dragons
0.1 Iguana
1.1 Ferrets
0.2 Cats

Can I ask what the temps were, what you were using to measure the temps, and what you're using for heat? These symptoms can also be associated with overheating...
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1.1.1 Ball pythons (Diablo, Mercedes, and Ciqala)
0.2.0 Cats (Kate and Clarice)
1.0.0 Rabbits (Milosh)

Using an Accurite digital thermometer, warm side floor temp 88-90°, cool side 80-82°. I use a human heating pad for heat. She had a branch for climbing up off the floor, as well as a water dish on the cool end.
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Franni
~~~~~~~
2.0 Ball Pythons
0.1 Nicaraguan Boa
2.3 Bearded Dragons
0.1 Iguana
1.1 Ferrets
0.2 Cats

I've only experienced it with boas (please tell me you didn't keep your BP near your boas!!), but I think it behaves in a similar fashion other than the time it takes. It took months and months for the symptoms to evolve with my boas, though I learned here that it goes much faster with pythons. How fast it is supposed to take with BPs, I really don't know.

IBD is supposed to be more common in adults, so that is one argument for it not being IBD, though the other symptoms suggest it could be.

I experienced the stargarzing and loss of appetite first. It's not just the occasional looking around and exploration of the cage. It is persistent. Only in the very last phases did they start to lose their balance or ability to right themselves.

With the second boa, I had a necropsy performed (I froze him after he died), I wasn't aware that non-refrigerated snakes can't be examined.

The only comforting thought I can share is that you can consider yourself fortunate that it didn't languish for mnoths on end. It's very upsetting to have it dragged out for so long.

First off, I know nothing about IBD, other than what I have read here. But giving the quickness your ball python went down, I am wondering if it was poisoning that killed it. A necropsy by a vet will be the only way to know for sure if you still have it.

Initially I thought it was a bad or old mouse you fed but in re-reading your post you mentioned it was fresh killed. Not sure if you bought the mouse at a petstore or if you bred them, but if it ingested any poison, that would have been passed onto the snake. If the mouse was clean, it would leave the environment. Was the cage recently cleaned? Is it possible that residue of cleaners were not rinsed off properly? Any chemicals stored in the same area as the snake? Check to make sure your heating pad isn't overheating and melting the plastic of it's cage (assuming it was in a rubbermaid type container).
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PHLdyPayne

All good ideas, but none of them fit. I fed my boa 2 rats from the same litter, and she is fine. I've get rats from a family owned fish shop that also has a few herps. I've been buying feeders from them for years.

The 15 gallon aquarium was thoroughly disenfected and rinsed a few months ago, sat empty, then rewashed with mild dish soap and rinsed well when I brought the baby home. The heating pad isn't overheating, and there are no chemicals stored anywhere near the cage. Everything in her cage was cleaned and rinsed well also.

Thanks for your input.
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Franni
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2.0 Ball Pythons
0.1 Nicaraguan Boa
2.3 Bearded Dragons
0.1 Iguana
1.1 Ferrets
0.2 Cats

It just seems like too much of a coincidence for a poison to result both startgazers (menengitis) and a lack of balance, both big symptoms of IBD (lack of appetite being the third, from my experience). If there were other symptoms not typically related to IBD, then I might be more inclined to agree.