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Ok now im really worried what do i do?

platinumtlc Aug 25, 2005 08:46 PM

I went to give my lizard tonight's carnivore care mix and he was basking on the sand under the light. I take him out and he is weaker than ever! When I place him on his back on my hand he'll either only move one hand trying to flip back over or swirl his tail around and arms trying to flip over, when he used to do both and be back on his stomach real quick. He is also opening his mouth and making like a noise and popping noises and like wheezing noises. He also seems bloated. I don't know what do to I am thinking he has upper respitory but my vet keeps saying no he doesnt. He keeps opening his mouth and almost sneezing.

I have been giving him calcium in his powder mix I am feeding him, usually less than 1 tsp in the mix. Maybe overdose of calcium? Should I just do the prescription he gave me, calcium glubonate or something. I just dont understand his breathing it can't be related to the calcium. I am seeing all of the signs of URI and my vet says no. I don't know what else to do.

Replies (19)

PHEve Aug 25, 2005 09:03 PM

RESPIRATORY INFECTION, I don't care what that guy says, they are classic symptoms, and mouth open like you say also.

That has nothing to do with calcium, atleast those signs.
If he does not treat this, you will lose the little guy real fast. I hate saying that, but they do not last long with that.

Do you have any other exotic vets you can call and tell them his symptoms ?

Did he give you any batril ? He needs an antibiotic fast!
Geesh I hope you can get one to help, thats a shame. Let us know.

I wish there was something I could tell you to do, but if its a resp infection only the Batril/antibiotic may help .
-----
PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

platinumtlc Aug 25, 2005 09:30 PM

I know its so frustrating.

I have been to like 3 diff vets and this one seemed most reliable. All I can do is call some more tomorrow to check other places around here.

He did not give me anything but Panacur and Metadozonil or something. And the carnivore care packet.
He kept saying the calcium def is the reason why his breathing is bad and because of an xray he took he didn't see any respitory infection. ahhhhhh i hate this

platinumtlc Aug 25, 2005 09:33 PM

You're in NJ right? What vet do you go to? I am in upper nj.

lizard_lover Aug 25, 2005 09:40 PM

Geeze . . . if you were anywhere in Alabama I'd drive to you to give you some of my Baytril. I can't drive to NJ tonight, though. Sorry.

Listen, when you do get some Baytril get a lot of it (at least two or three ccs) to take home and keep at hand for emergencies like this. Seal it up in an airtight container and store it in a cool, dry, dark place. I just bought a whole new bottle of it last week. It cost about $50, but I know I'm set for at least the next three years. I always try to keep the most commonly used medicines at hand at all times.

I hope the little guys makes it. I'm sure worried about him.

élan
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0.3.0 Collareds
1.0.0 Mali Uromastix
2.1.0 Green Anole
1.0.0 Chinese Dwarf Newt
1.1.0 California Newts
1.0.0 White's Treefrog
0.0.1 Green Tree Frog
1.0.0 Fire bellied toad
2.1.0 Felines
1.2.0 Canines
1.0.0 Equine

platinumtlc Aug 25, 2005 09:36 PM

Should I just argue with my current vet to give me Baytril or something for upper respitory?

lizard_lover Aug 25, 2005 09:42 PM

Yes, yes, yes! Though I hope it doesn't come down to an argument.

élan
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0.3.0 Collareds
1.0.0 Mali Uromastix
2.1.0 Green Anole
1.0.0 Chinese Dwarf Newt
1.1.0 California Newts
1.0.0 White's Treefrog
0.0.1 Green Tree Frog
1.0.0 Fire bellied toad
2.1.0 Felines
1.2.0 Canines
1.0.0 Equine

platinumtlc Aug 25, 2005 09:50 PM

How do I get him to give me the baytril?
He will keep saying it's not upper respitory blah blah its the calcium deficiency blah blah.

platinumtlc Aug 25, 2005 09:55 PM

If i get the batril and treat him with it, is there any neg effects if he doesn't have upper respitory infection?

lizard_lover Aug 25, 2005 10:10 PM

I have never seen any ill effects from Baytril. I imagine it's probably a lot like people taking an antibiotic--there may be risk of developing antibiotic resistant strains of bacteria, especially if you start Baytril for an infection but don't give it long enough. I am sure there would be risks with an overdose, but I have always given collared lizards 1/100th of a cc (the very first line on a syringe), so it is an easy measurement. I haven't ever witnessed any signs of toxicity or adverse reactions, so in this case I would not hesitate to give it.

I guess I am lucky; after all the years of taking lizards (and other critters) to my vet, these days I pretty much just tell him what I need, and he always gives it to me. I have him very well trained

élan
-----
0.3.0 Collareds
1.0.0 Mali Uromastix
2.1.0 Green Anole
1.0.0 Chinese Dwarf Newt
1.1.0 California Newts
1.0.0 White's Treefrog
0.0.1 Green Tree Frog
1.0.0 Fire bellied toad
2.1.0 Felines
1.2.0 Canines
1.0.0 Equine

PHEve Aug 25, 2005 10:12 PM

Symptoms and Diagnosis
Symptoms include listlessness, weight loss due to decreased appetite, swollen or bloated body, gaping, open mouth breathing, often with audible exhalations when in an advanced state. Wheezing may be heard, or clicking noises when breathing. Bubbly, stringy or sheeting mucous appears in the mouth. The head may be held in a raised position to facilitate breathing. In snakes, the tines of the forked tongue may be stuck together. Respiratory infections in snakes are especially dangerous in those snakes who have only one functioning lung (colubrids, etc.).

When you notice signs of a respiratory infection, not only must you evaluate and correct the environmental problems, but you must take the reptile to a reptile to be evaluated for systemic antibiotic therapy and possibly fluid and nutritional support. If the reptile does not respond to environmental correction and the antibiotic therapy, a culture and sensitivity should be done to determine exactly what the organism(s) is and the best antibiotic to combat it. The sample is easily taken by the vet in the form of a choanal swab or, in more difficult cases, a lung washing. In rare cases, the infection may be due to a fungal infection, which requires different medications than bacterial infections.

Treatment
Treating a respiratory infection requires two things: an immediate evaluation of the day and night temperatures in the reptile's enclosure, with additional heat sources added or broken/malfunctioning equipment replaced, and the attention of a reptile vet who will evaluate the reptile for systemic antibiotics and fluid replacement. In addition, if the reptile has cagemates or lives in a room where he is in line-of-site of other reptiles or household pets, an overall psychosocial evaluation needs to be made.

Reptile with respiratory infections should be kept in draft-free but well-ventilated enclosures maintained at the species' day time temperature gradient both during the day and at night. For reptiles who require a hotter basking area, the basking area temperatures do not need to be provided at night, but the higher overall gradient does. This will not only enable the reptile's own immune system to function better, but increases the efficacy of the antibiotics.

Anorectic lizards and chelonians will need to be hand- or force-fed during this time

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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

PHEve Aug 25, 2005 10:14 PM

Leave your heat on day and night while hes sick.
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

platinumtlc Aug 25, 2005 10:22 PM

Where is this from? He will probably ask for a source or a book or something.

lizard_lover Aug 25, 2005 10:29 PM

Tell him simply that it's from a "reputable breeder."

Eve, you are reputable, right? (wink)

élan
-----
0.3.0 Collareds
1.0.0 Mali Uromastix
2.1.0 Green Anole
1.0.0 Chinese Dwarf Newt
1.1.0 California Newts
1.0.0 White's Treefrog
0.0.1 Green Tree Frog
1.0.0 Fire bellied toad
2.1.0 Felines
1.2.0 Canines
1.0.0 Equine

PHEve Aug 25, 2005 10:46 PM

I would hope so,
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

PHEve Aug 25, 2005 10:45 PM

Reptile respiratory infection, they all say the same thing.

IF you think hes going to give you a hard time find another vet.
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

platinumtlc Aug 26, 2005 12:12 AM

WHen I ask him tomorrow, how much should I ask for? What if he asks me to bring in the collared to make me pay for another office visit. Its possible just to pick up the batril right? Is there any reason why he wouldn't give me some?

PHEve Aug 26, 2005 08:10 AM

I would say I will bring him in again, if I do not have to pay for another office visit as I care about my lizard but don't have the money right now.

Geesh, if he found waht was wrong the first time and treated him for it, you would not be going through all htis or yopur POOR lizard! Ya know
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PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

John-C Aug 26, 2005 09:41 AM

If it were mine and I didn't have any experience in treating herps, I would ask him if he could just inject the lizard with approx 1 unit (0.01cc) intra-muscular (IM) in one of the front legs. This dose is good for the size/weight of most collareds. If he's willing, have him load a few insulin syringes for you with the same amount of the baytril. Take the meds home and keep it fridge. If you can inject it at home, simply alternate the injection locations between the two front legs (forearms or triceps area is fine). You'll need help holding it still while injecting. The frequency I would use would be twice daily for two days then once a day for the remainder of week. But try to consult with the vet first or he may become upset that you seeked outside advise.

He may be able to extract a fecal sample with a small fecal loop while you have the lizard there. Have him do an in house fecal (float) which should take around 20 minutes. Otherwise he'll simply send it to the lab and this may take a day or two for results ... time is of the essence here ... right?
The baytril should not cause any ill effects if he has a uri or not but as I mentioned in an earlier post, keep available water in with it to avoid dehydration.

OK, I'm almost late for work ... good luck,

John

PHEve Aug 25, 2005 10:02 PM

resp infection, tell him YOU know from other collared keepers the signs and he has them all !

I would ask if he could give you the batril , YES, either that.......

or look in your phone book for an exotics vet and tell them on the phone YOU are certain by his signs its a resp infection he needs batril, and he is not being treated for it.

Now, I can not see your guy, nor can any of us, BUT from everythign you have said, all signs point to URI

I'm in Southern Jersy a long way from you, so you need a vet closer, and quick!
-----
PHEve / Eve

Contact PHEve

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