Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I used to watch Dennis Franz on NYPD Blue. I just saw him again on TV. He did a commercial for fundforanimals.org, where he came right out and said "Some animals belong in the home( i.e.. dogs and cats), Some are very dangerous and can even Kill you. They have no business being owned be the general public." while saying this last part, they were showing a guy playing with a tiger cub and another with red tail boa. Then directed you to go to the web site to help fight legal ownership of these animals so the world will be safer. My thought is how can we possibly win this when there are celebrities advertising that we are in the wrong? I know I can't afford to make a nation wide prime time commercial advertising that with the proper training, proper tools and equipment, responsible husbandry, and most of all deserved respect, these animals should most certainly be allowed in the home. Can any of you? I guess its gonna be a hard fight to win. Slash from Guns and Roses and Alice Cooper are both herp collectors. How can I reach them to make a commercial on our behalf?

You know, those are all very valid concerns. You see things online like Pamela Anderson on Peta's side and craziness like that, and you certainly wonder, what we can do to fight back. The truth in my opinion is that there really isn't anything we can do. I take that back, there are things that we can do, but nobody would do them. Money speaks louder than anything. There are still going to be a large number of breeders out there that will sell to anyone that has the money and can pronounce the species they want to purchase.

The sad part is that it's our own "hobbyists" that seem to be doing most of the damage. Let's face it, we as a group can't even appear to agree on a resolution to our problems. Most individuals have their own opinions as to what is really causing the problem how they feel it should be solved. Then when we argue about it, we get nowhere, and we drop the subject.

We as hobbyists of these animals are a building that is weak in the foundation. We can't even stand together on a single issue agreeably (sp?)! The only way we will have a shot is if we pull out the bags of "quikcrete" and strengthen our own foundation, before we can EVER consider attacking the other side.

We can get Michael Jordan or whoever to support our side, however, the other side will only attempt to make them look like fools as well.

It takes a certain type of person to fight these battles successfully. Clean cut, professional, educated, experienced herpers with degrees in their fields will be our best shot. However, these individuals typically already get to work with the animals of their choosing in their careers. They really have no true NEED to keep them privately, and even the ones that do wish to can be granted "passes" so that they are not included within the same laws (not saying this is the case for all). For the most part, the individuals that could help the most are too wrapped up in their own lives to really care too much about standing up for ours. I could be wrong on this statement, but this is just the way I have been seeing it.

I am not intending on being offensive to anyone or cause a flame war, so please don't turn this in to one.

Best Wishes,

Chris

crap do i know this all too well breed bans abound and every day is a fight to keep the pit bull breed alive

Extinct is forever
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1.0 alb. okeetee "Grissom"
1.0 American Pit Bull Terrier "Vanyel"
0.1 Somali "Willow"

Chris, I certainly hear what you are saying and do agree with your concerns. As one of those professionals who will get to enjoy his hobby (whether at home or work) regardless of stringent bans, I, for one, would never want to see this happen as I have many, many friends who are very capable people who should be allowed to continue enjoying their hobby in the privacy of their own home (and if I ever leave my position here, I would be a private hobbyist who would like to enjoy his hobby legally). You are right, all of us have our own agendas but the bottom line is that we should all be supporting the idea of protecting our rights to keep herps w/out bans, etc....that's the simple bottom line. If that requires a permit, so be it (just my opinion). Fees, no problemo; I'd pay just about any fee, even if it is ridiculous, in order to keep my herps (once again, just my own opinion). But, the bottom line is that we don't have a designated national organization or group, like PETA, where funds are raised, where high profile people are on TV and radio and other advertisements, preaching to folks that the keeping of reptiles should be legal (and have some valid reasons on why this hobby should be allowed). Instead, we are all just our own "organizations" who must fight our own small battles and unfortunately, those battles are usually with each other. As one of those lucky ones (I actually consider myself blessed), I don't have the answers but putting togehter a national panel of "experts" (high profile people who project the proper image and have the connections to get things done) would be my first recommendation. This panel should represent a cross section including professional breeders, high profile hobbyists, herpetologists from the academic sector, curators of well known facilities (particularly if it falls under the umbrella of a city government like many and many others), hard core researchers, and, perhaps just as important, a celebrity or high profile figure or two who either keeps herps or encourages it (and I am not thinking of Alice Cooper!!...it needs to be someone that legislators can connect with and respect). Just my .02.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>You know, those are all very valid concerns. You see things online like Pamela Anderson on Peta's side and craziness like that, and you certainly wonder, what we can do to fight back. The truth in my opinion is that there really isn't anything we can do. I take that back, there are things that we can do, but nobody would do them. Money speaks louder than anything. There are still going to be a large number of breeders out there that will sell to anyone that has the money and can pronounce the species they want to purchase.
>>
>> The sad part is that it's our own "hobbyists" that seem to be doing most of the damage. Let's face it, we as a group can't even appear to agree on a resolution to our problems. Most individuals have their own opinions as to what is really causing the problem how they feel it should be solved. Then when we argue about it, we get nowhere, and we drop the subject.
>>
>> We as hobbyists of these animals are a building that is weak in the foundation. We can't even stand together on a single issue agreeably (sp?)! The only way we will have a shot is if we pull out the bags of "quikcrete" and strengthen our own foundation, before we can EVER consider attacking the other side.
>>
>> We can get Michael Jordan or whoever to support our side, however, the other side will only attempt to make them look like fools as well.
>>
>> It takes a certain type of person to fight these battles successfully. Clean cut, professional, educated, experienced herpers with degrees in their fields will be our best shot. However, these individuals typically already get to work with the animals of their choosing in their careers. They really have no true NEED to keep them privately, and even the ones that do wish to can be granted "passes" so that they are not included within the same laws (not saying this is the case for all). For the most part, the individuals that could help the most are too wrapped up in their own lives to really care too much about standing up for ours. I could be wrong on this statement, but this is just the way I have been seeing it.
>>
>>I am not intending on being offensive to anyone or cause a flame war, so please don't turn this in to one.
>>
>>Best Wishes,
>>
>>Chris
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Rob,
When I suggested Alice Cooper and Slash, they were just two celebrities I am aware of in the herp hobby. I do realize their being on TV will only promote more pot smoking, immature scum bags to join us, which most certainly will make matters worse, but they also both have unlimited bank accounts that could, if we knew how to reach them, help greatly in funding the creation of our own national organization. I'm sure there are other celebrities in the hobby who could help, I'm just not aware of any. One thought is the herp magazines. If our hobby is in jeopardy, their mags are in jeopardy as well, so I wonder if they could do more to help by advertising free on our behalf. It couldn't hurt them, and would certainly help their future. If herps become illegal, how much need would we have for Reptiles Magazine? Just some more food for thought. So........How do I go about starting this organization that speaks out at events, recruits more supporters and gets our fight out of these forms and into the public eye? I, like most of us here, am more then willing to invest a lot of time, but like most, don't have the money required. Billy

.

.

Hey, I like Alice Cooper and am not a pot smoking, immature scum bag.
Seriously though, freedom of the press belongs to those who own the presses. The media are not public servants, their job is to sell advertising. Like drug deals gone bad, they capitalize on sensationalism, not the thousands of perfectly happy drug deals taking place each day.
Fact is, our country is becoming a less free place to live in practically every aspect of our lives. Why should reptiles be excluded from this trend.
This isn't me, it's the (legal) alcohol talking.

I hear Slash got rid of all his herps since getting married. Whats up with that?!?!

He's ________ whipped!

>>I hear Slash got rid of all his herps since getting married. Whats up with that?!?!