Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Here are some shots of P. lineaticollis gibsoni, taken a couple of weeks ago in Guatemala. I've been doing research on lineaticollis and deppei, and was down there to see some wild caught animals to supplement the 200 pickled museum specimens I've studied. I had bad luck finding wild Pituophis, but luckily the zoo there had hatched out several eggs from a WC gravid female, and gave these to me (I'm still awaiting their arrival).

Note the broken paravertebral neck stripes - that's what distinguishes them from Mexican P.l. lineaticollis, although I have seen a couple of gibsoni that have unbroken neck stripes.

The conventional wisdom about these guys, from everyone I've found who has kept them there, is that WC animals do not do well - very nervous, poor feeders. CB are fine, and get truly huge (8 ft ) - think Highway 277 bulls....

By the way, I favor referring to these guys by the following names. It would be great to get others to adopt some kind of consistency:

P.l. lineaticollis: Mexican stripe-necked Pine
P.l. gibsoni: Guatemalan stripe-necked pine
P.d.deppei: Mexican pine
P.d.jani: San Luis Potosi Pine (they're almost limited to that state)

Another yearling gibsoni

another

And here are a couple of habitat shots, where local herpetologists have collected gibsoni. Not far outside Antigua, one of the major towns, elevation 5500-6000 feet. Snakes are said to be common where forest meets cornfields, and on roads early and late in the day. They're not rare, but only found in few localities and unpredictable. And at this elevation the species diversity of herps is fairly low. You can see many more species in a day in the lowland rain forests areas (we saw plenty of cat-eyed snakes at night and speckled racer - Drymnobius - in the daytime, but no Pituophis found there.

another habitat shot

You're a lucky guy to be able to look for Pits in Guatemala! That gibsoni is awesome but that big lineaticollis is just amazing.
I like your ideas for common names but I think San Luis Potosi Pine might be a hard sell. Most people just refer to them as jani and four letters beats four words every time
Although I agree that your suggestions make a lot more sense.
Chris

Good job on a very informative post. If lineaticollis females can top 8 feet.........how big can a male get? Has any wild caught animal been documented in excess of 8 feet? If true, these guys would have the potential to be largest of the pituophis group. As the proud owner of a 8 and 1/2 Northern Pine, I could really get stoked with a lineaticollis of that size gracing my collection.

Your comment about jani being mostly from San Luis Potosi caught my attention. I was always under the impression that jani were inhabitants of the more northerly portions of the Sierra Madre Oriental. I know Alan Kardon has collected them in the vicinity of Galeana in southern Nuevo Leon. Do you have any locale data from points farther south and any pics of wild caughts from these areas? Field data has always somewhat scarce on the pits from Mexico and Guatemala. As much as I like looking at other breeder's animals, I'd love to see some good photos of these splendid animals in their natural environment. If you have any good links............enlighten us..............regards.......Steve G.

The big lineaticollis in the pic is by far the largest known. Of the 200 or so animals - preserved - that I've seen, the largest are about 6 feet.

About jani distribution, they are found in a relatively small area to the east of d. deppei's range, mostly within the state of S.L. Potosi, a bit of Nuevo Leon too. That's what I think they should be called SL Potosi pines. d. deppei has a huge range ,jani very small. I'm analyzing right now how much variation there is in pattern across the range - for instance, d. deppei hybridizes with sonoran gopher over a huge area of north-central mexico.

I think I have had some of those hybrids. Many years ago when I was in the pet shop business, I bought several "Sonoran gopher snakes" from a dealer in Laredo, TX. They definitely were not like any Sonoran gophers I've seen since. They wer very distinctly marked with dark purple blotches on a salmon/tan ground with bright orange-red heads. Sure wish I had some now. I think I paid about $7.50 each for them.
Jim

It is not often you see pics of this snake. So other than the broken neck stripe these are practically identical to the other Lineaticollis? I thought these would be darker from the few pics I have seen. I know a person who works for a zoo here in TX who had a pair, he got eggs two or three times but none hatched. Was there any trick to it that you know of? In closing I think you are making a very good point about the proper name for the Jani. Seeing Pit people try very hard to be specific in general it would be cool to have these 4 snakes permanently named in the easiest way to distinguish them from each other. It's a bit off topic but I would love to see some Speckled Racer pics. Thanks for posting Tom Stevens

Tom - the babies are dark but get lighter as they grow - by a year they're a straw background color. I don't know details of how the eggs were incubated, but only 4 of 12 hatched I believe.

Sorry, not speckled racer pics - they are just too fast...

First up massive respect is due for your pics and comments.
This species is probably the least researched pituophis(along with gibsoni) and therefore data and pics of any decent quality are virtually non existant.In my case being somewhat isolated over in the U.K.,you have just increased my knowledge of this species nicely.
Nice clear pics,keep up the good work and thanks

Thanks for the insight, every little bit of info amounts to a ton of info to me, as I know nothing about them, accept the there name.
I enjoyed the pics mostly the habitiat pics , It looks like some thick jungels.

Do you ever think they will make it to main stream hobby?

Thanks jason

Jason - my guess is that because lineaticollis seem to be prolific breeders once established, it will take a few years but we'll see both subspecies widely available. With 50 eggs from 2 females last year, and dozens more this year, there will be breeding stock out there, although all of it fairly inbred.

P.d.jani is not restricted to a limited range in Nuevo Leon. It is found throughout most of the Sierra Madre Oriental above 1400 meters elevation. I have collected numerous specimens in central Nuevo Leon, western Tamaulipas, and northern San Luis Potosi. I would hazard a guess that they are also in the Sierra Madre Oriental of south eastern Coahuila. To say that they have a greater range/or are more common in San Luis Potosi is not correct.

Alan- I didn't say jani is restricted to SL Potosi - however it has a very restricted range relative to deppei - I've now looked at 200 musuem specimens, maybe there is collecting bias in favor of SLP for some reason - deppei also of course intergrades widely with affinis across a huge area, low and high elevations.
Craig Stanford