Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Is it really that bad? I mean its natural right? Arent bloods natural born killers? If anyone does feed live how do they do it and hows it been? Also if not how do youy switch them over to pre-killed?
thanks
Mike

I used to feed live, and no, its not that bad when the snake is supervised or a strong feeder.

yes, a snake will eat live food in the wild, but they WON'T be locked in a small space with a scared animal ready to defend itself. Accidents happen when you have a timid snake, or a snake that isn't hungry and the mouse/rat is allowed to stay in the cage for an extended period and decides to eat the snake. I've seen some pretty graphic photos where live prey has literally chewed the skin off 60% of the snake.

Also, live food can bite back during constriction, but MOST of these (not all) are small injuries that heal well.

Most of your beginner snakes will switch to frozen thawed fairly easily. If you get a healthy snake thats comfortable in its surroundings, they'll eat just about anything that smells like food.

I feed all my snakes live prey i dont leave the room but ive never had a problem My bloods are all good feeders and attack the prey within 15 seconds of seeing it shaun t

What is the point of feeding live prey if you can easily switch an animal to FT or PK? Are their any upsides to feeding live? no.

Check out the proexotics.com FAQ section for switching form live to FT.
-----
0.1 Leopard gecko's
0.0.1 Ball Python's
0.1 blood python's
0.1 Crested Geckos

are they any upside to ft pk if live doesnt cost you anymore he just asked if anyone feeds live which i do why does everyone always want to bash other keepers on these forums i prefer to feed live i think it promotes a healthier feeding response and have never had a rodent cause serious injury to any of my snakes. shaun t

-No chance of harm to your snake caused by the prey

-More humain death for the prey item

...I don't see why you would need more info than that...
-----
"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

As long as i have keep snakes and i have had a collection as large as 30 now i only keep bloods though i have never had any problem with live food.Your heater could malfuncation and burn your snake but you still use a heater right.As far as humane i personally dont care about a rat but what is humane aboutputting in a bag and whacking on the counter or freezing it to death it dies just the same. shaun t

The less humane the killing (wack on the head, cervical dislocation, etc) the worse it is for ALL herpers. If there was some animal rights terrorist as a reporter and they got wind of this they would give herpers a horrible light. Wasting people's efforts to get herpers a good reputation is an insult to all those people.
-----
0.1 Leopard gecko's
0.0.1 Ball Python's
0.1 blood python's
0.1 Crested Geckos

if your snake only would accept live would you feed it to them then.

I would try to switch them to FT as soon as possible, its not hard. I switched my ball python over to FT in 3 feedings (live, fresh killed, frozen thaw) its quite easy. Also in this day and age most snakes are fed FT from soon after birth so their is usually no need to feed live.
-----
0.1 Leopard gecko's
0.0.1 Ball Python's
0.1 blood python's
0.1 Crested Geckos

have you ever tried to switch a wild caught blood or jampea over to ft its not quite as easy.

No i haven't tried to switch over a WC blood or retic. However a majority of the animals available today are CB and should pose no problem switching over to FT or even starting on FT.
-----
0.1 Leopard gecko's
0.0.1 Ball Python's
0.1 blood python's
0.1 Crested Geckos

s
-----
0.1 Leopard gecko's
0.0.1 Ball Python's
0.1 blood python's
0.1 Crested Geckos

i didnt say i know everything. there are plenty of other people on these forums with loads more exp than me.I just answered a simple question posted he asked if anybody feeds live prey which i do he didnt ask about feeding ft or pk but everybody had to jump in and say dont do it.Just because you dont do something doesnt make it right or wrong.And i already said i think it promotes a healthy feeding response but i guess you missed that part but thats just my humble opinion Shaun t

My blood has a much better feeding response when fed FT than when i fed her live (once). Bloods rely heavily on their heat receptors to find prey and finding a HOT (115ish) dead rat is a lot easier than finding a live rat. Also, no one got on his back and told him to feed FT or PK. We merely stated that feeding live is a risk and there is no point to it when you can feed FT or PK. So the only upside to live feeding is a "healthy feeding response" even though by feeding FT or PK you can get an equally good or even better feeding response?
-----
0.1 Leopard gecko's
0.0.1 Ball Python's
0.1 blood python's
0.1 Crested Geckos

thats your opinion i was just giving mine he wanted to know about feeding live and thats what i told him.

also some people enjoy watching their snake in action so maybe thats why he wants to feed live

Geee yea... now thats a good point. Endanger your snake for entertainment. I dont know how many bloods you keep but in general they all have a very strong feeding responce. Most I don't need to even heat the prey item. So if by chance they just will not eat FT they will get live until I can switch them. This has so far only been done to babies that are under two months of age. After that they will eat anything in sight. Which is not necissarily a good thing. Once they get full grown the big eaters tend to want to keep eating as often as before and can start searching their cage and possibly causing nose rub or the like. You dont seem to have any intelligent arguement for feeding live other than that thats what you want to do. I was simply suggesting an alternative that is healthier for the animal and more humain for the prey. He was asking about feeding FT as well anyways, so I dont see why you are saying we shouldn't talk about it?

J
-----
"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

I currently have 7 blood pythons 4 of which are adults if you like to feed live what is really the big problem .it is my preference and i dont think its a big danger at all. sure things happen but thats life things happen to snakes in the wild. to many people think animals have emotions the same as a human but they dont think like us at all.Do you really think a snake cares if he takes a little bite in order to get a meal.Dont get me wrong i dont want my snake to get biten ,and if my snake seems uninterested in eating i take the prey out and feed it to a more willing snake.And to say the feeding response is the same just doesnt hold weight in my opinion why do most young snakes only take live for there first meal?I think its because its more natural to them to eat live prey snakes are in fact predators they kill there meals there not scavengers.I respect your guys opinions all i ask is you respect mine and not label me as unintelligant or irresponsible because i am neither. shaun t

"Things happen to snakes in the wild" A cage is not the wild. You cannot compare any aspect of captive husbandry to what it is like in the wild. In the wild it is survival of the fittest. In captivity there is no need what so ever to endanger your snake by feeding live (unless they will not accept any other prey item). Also in regards to "snakes first meal is live" have you ever conducted a study about offering FT to a snake on their first meal? Maybe one of the reasons a snakes first meal is live is because the breeder doesn't offer it FT or PK. There are enough reports of hatchlings feeding FT on their first meal to at least attemp to feed FT.
-----
0.1 Leopard gecko's
0.0.1 Ball Python's
0.1 blood python's
0.1 Crested Geckos

Ive had hatchlings of my own they were colubrids and not bloods but they rarely accepted anything but live for there first meal

Hi
Ive just been reading this thread and although I strongly recommend feeding prekilled prey, to each their own.
I just wanted to say that I breed bloods and all my hatchlings take frozen thawed as their first meal. I only offer fresh killed prey to snakes that wont eat f/t. We hatched or gave birth(braz. rainbows) to 83 snakes this year. Out of those babies only 5 snakes needed fresh killed to start eating, none of which were blood pythons. In my experience the idea that snakes need live prey as their first meals is mainly a myth.
Just my two cents
Chris

Thank you even though you dont agree with me you are the only one who didnt attack me or tell me i dont properly care for my snakes {Enjoy your freedom thank a veteran} Shaun t {us submarine veteran}

That all has to do with the animals natural feeding responce as well. If the animal is inbred, from recent caught parents, stressed for any reason ect it will be harder to feed. Dont get me wrong it is possible that is is easier for YOU to feed live, but it in no way benefits your snakes. I really dont see any frame of refernce for your argument other than it is what you want to do. We can't make you stop doing it, all I can do is warn you of what can happen to your snakes. Your animals obviously aren't in the wild and I believe a person that has ANY animal in captivity should take as good care as possible. Snakes dont have feelings? Well how do they get mad? How do they show me that they are hungry? Maybe you should spend some more time with your animals and get in tune with them. You will probably enjoy them alot more.

Jordan
-----
"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

i didnt say snakes are moody or dont have "feelings" and i do spend plenty of time playing with my snake but they dont think the same as humans do.Also i never made personal attacks on you and your assumptions of my keeping abilites lend no weight to your argument and just make you sound like your arguing just to argue.I listened to the points you made but i never questioned the care or the level of your ability as keeper.I work with my snakes as much as anyone and my bloods are well taken care of and perfectly healthy shaun t

with Giant husbantry leaps our industry has made in the past few years.one including feeding F.T,you have better choices in keeping your animals healthy and harm free.bY CONTINUING TO EXCERSISE YOUR FREE CHOICE OF FEEDING live PUTS YOUR ANIMALS IN harms WAY every time you feed them.I have seen animals lose an eye from agile,agressive rats.Also not to mention that the prey animals can be carrying PARASITES such as tapeworm etc...than can be transmitted to your pets.In some countries it is illegal and inhumane to feed live prey to another animal.Thank God we haven't adopted that law YET.Our hobby is already on shaky ground ,why rock the boat.It is NEGLEGENT to DISREGUARD THE WELL BEING OF THE PREY ANIMAL,reguardless it be rat,rabbit,goat ,chicken or pig.It's people like you who will ruin for the rest of us RESPONSIBLE HERPERS.It is also WAY CHEEPER TO BUY FROZEN. Ash Lopez
-----

okay now thats just friggin retarded. we blood owners dont feed live because we want to endanger our snakes! if they will eat F/T then we will feed them that, however some of ours will only eat live. i dont here of you running off on some campaign to provide care and worldly attention to all of the wild snakes that get bit when they kill their (gasp!) live prey. its a snake! snakes are going to eat regardless and they are going to want to kill. you cant rid them of that animal instinct. has anyone ever noticed that when you feed a F/T the snake constricts it anyway? this is a killing instinct that has been going on for millions of years! youre not ever going to be able to get a snake to sit down and eat at the dinner table with a knife and fork or write you out a shopping list asking for food from the freezer section. if you deny the snake what it has known to do then what is the point of owning a snake? for all of you that have children, you send your kids to school each day but theres a chance that they could be hurt. i doubt that anyone in here with kids or a family refuses to let any of them leave the house because they might get hurt. isnt your family more important than your snake(spouses, this would be a good time to sit down with your significant other and have a nice long talk)?

i feed my snakes live and i also feed them F/T..whatever i happen to have at the time. however it doesnt matter to me what they eat because only one thing is important to me....they eat.
-----

0.0.1 Colombian Redtail Boa
1.1.1 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python

The only thing similar is that there is a snake. You can't compare them when makeing an argument. In the wild its survival of the fittest. In captivity if it was survival of the fittest you would go to jail for animal cruelty. When you own a snake (or any pet) it is your responsibility to make sure it gets the best care and is healthy and safe. Feeding live can erase all three of those. Granted some WC snakes or snakes that have fed their whole lives on live might be tricky to switch to FT, that doesnt mean they won't. Also not all captive snakes pythons constrict their prey. Last night my blood just waltzed up to the snake and started swallowing. Also "in the wild" there is dead meat available too. I doubt if a blood came across a dead prey item in the wild that they would pass over it because it isnt moving.
-----
0.1 Leopard gecko's
0.0.1 Ball Python's
0.1 blood python's
0.1 Crested Geckos

yes there is an upside. you cant breed your own frozen rats for one. second, you dont have to pay a buttload for live like you have to with most frozen rat dealers (who make you buy a minimum order).
-----

0.0.1 Colombian Redtail Boa
1.1.1 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python

You can breed your own rats, kill them, then freeze them. Also the reason why there must be a minimum order is because if you only wanted 5 pinky mice instead of minimum order 100 you would be paying about 10 dollars per mouse.
-----
0.1 Leopard gecko's
0.0.1 Ball Python's
0.1 blood python's
0.1 Crested Geckos

where do you come up with that?!?!? you mean to tell me they cant ship in a smaller box? and why bother to breed rats if youre just gonna freeze them? oh yeah ...i forgot. because it less mean to the poor cute lil ratsy watsies.
-----

0.0.1 Colombian Redtail Boa
1.1.1 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python

If you are breeding enough rodents to sell them to the nation then it would be extremely uneconomical to have multiple kinds of boxes. They are packaged with dry ice which makes them heavy therefore costlier to ship. If you ordered 5 pinky's there would be several lbs. of dry ice in a small (10" cube) box. The box would cost about $20 to ship and pikies would be next to nothing. That is still 4 bucks a pinky!
Why would you freeze them if you breed them? Because you are a responsible keeper and would rather not risk the injury or death of your animal.
-----
0.1 Leopard gecko's
0.0.1 Ball Python's
0.1 blood python's
0.1 Crested Geckos

How do say you have to pay a buttload for FT? Yeah you have to buy 50 or so at a time, but the price per rat is way less expensive than live. And if you have a few snakes it's not like buying 50 at a time is way more than you need, I buy 100 at a time so I don't have to order them all the time. Even with shipping it costs almost half as much per rat as they do at the store. All I'm arguing is price, so please don't take this as an attack on anyone. -chris-

i consider it to be a buttload because i breed rats and sometimes i dont have the supply of live rats or mice to be able to feed my snakes for another week. so i need just a small amount to get the job done. i dont want to have to buy 100 or so when all i need is 20. thats just a waste in my book. besides, the freezer isnt all that big at my place. and no, i dont take your comment as an attack.
-----

0.0.1 Colombian Redtail Boa
1.1.1 Sumatran Blood Pythons
1.0 Black Blood Python
1.0 Dumeril's Boa
0.1 Coastal Carpet Python
0.1 Jungle Carpet Python

s
-----
0.1 Leopard gecko's
0.0.1 Ball Python's
0.1 blood python's
0.1 Crested Geckos

In my book, as long as proper supervision is present, who cares whether you feed live? As far as the snake getting injured, it if has enough feeding response to only take or prefer live, then the odds of injury are very small! As for natural instinct, putting a snake in a cage, while not the same as in the wild, does not negate the fact that they still have those predatorial insticts. Captive or not, survival of the fittest is still present and especially with supervision should go off with no problems. I don't know how many snakes of yours have been killed off by rats but as for most of us, we've had no problems. Not only might the snake feel more at home because those predatorial instincts are being excercised and satisfied, it is also on occasion easier to run up to the pet store and buy a single rat. And don't even start on humane. I don't care how you look at it, in no way is smacking a rat against a tabletop, freezing it to death, or breaking the spine more humane than letting the snake have a go at him. It's natural, it's the way it happens in the wild, it's the way im sure the snake would have it if he could choose, and for God sakes, it's a rat. I'm sure if there's a rat heaven, the poor little martyr would be there. Rest in Peace little rat and enough with the arguments...it works for some people and thats all there is to it. Besides it's starting to look like the ball python forum in here...

Steve

N/P

Still... none, all your arguing is that it's easier for you, and entertaining. And supposedly "helps exibit a stronger feeding responce". Just don't really see any point, but if thats the way you want to deal with your animals no one can stop you.
-----
"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior