Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey Everyone,

I'm new again to the forum after being gone for a few years now. LOL. I FINALLY got back into turtles. I recently purchased to adult female DBTs for a very large display tank I setup. Brackish water with the works, a nice filter and a nice big tub for fresh water weekly and feeding.

When I purchased the two girls I was told that the one girl was shedding scutes and her shell appeared to be discolored. Since I had owned turtles before, I knew that shedding scutes would be no problem and her coloration would come back even better when the old scutes came off.

To my suprise, the shedding isn't shedding after all. Large areas of her shell (top) are covered in white! If kept in the water for a few days it gets soft.

I have since then been keeping her as dry as possible by keeping her out of water and only putting her into the water for feeding and re-hydration.

I have included some photos of this girl so that everyone can take a look at her. Please let me know what you guys think. I really want to keep her and help her shell get better. I need to know exactly what I'm dealing with and hopefully be guided along to treating her.

Thanks!

Luis

white on bone! Once you strip off the keratin and the very narrow tissue layer underneath, that's what you get out of a turtle shell, the bone.

The last of the three pictures you posted seems a good one - I believe you can make out the sutures between the costal bones. Depending on the source for your animals, the injuries are likely the results of pre- or post-shipping treatment. Especially if these animals were initially intended for cuisine markets (prominent trade in part of New York and San Francisco), they may have gone through some real mass-packaging rigors.

Luckily, she looks outwardly healthy for a recent acquisition. Since the tissue in the injured areas is completely stripped off, it does not seem likely that the scutes will completely regenerate, ever. Insofar as threat of dehydration from life in brackish water with that much of the carapace unprotected by the upper layers of the shell, I couldn't tell you. It would seem that the mineral content of the water (salts and such) would potentially have, at least initially, a negative (i.e., drawing water from underneath the shell) effect. However, being chronically exposed to the atmosphere will do the same thing, to the shell as well as to the skin.

For now, you might simply allow her to behave normally and keep a sharp eye on the progress of the injury margins. If these are large females, healing will be even slower than normal, which is after all, at a turtle's pace.

Hey,

Thanks alot for the response. I really appreciate the input. Well the most I can say is that she'll be going to the vet soon and if there is any type of treatment for her I will deffinatly consider it.

Another thing as well, Please be safe and sure on your purchases on any classified forums, even here on *KINGSNAKE*

Thanks alot,

Luis

This is the absence of the scutes revealing the underlying bone. Because of the smooth nature of the lesions, it was pobably due to abrasion by overcrowding during shipping and handling rather than disease. Is this a Chinatown meat market turtle? Turtles can survive very well with this condition and sice there is no evidence of secondary infection, just keep the turtle under normal conditions. The scutes rarely or never grow back completely, however.

regardless of how the scutes were damaged, you can prevent the damage from becoming greater by sealing the turtles shell. All of the exposed bone should be covered, just overlapping the undamaged keratin.
By sealing the damaged areas, it prevents further loss of the remaining keratin and allows for new keratin to regenerate. Sealant will also prevent excessive water loss and reduce the likely hood of infection during the healing process.
I have successfully used Marine epoxy (by GOOP) also you may consider using a heavy wood floor enamel. (I have used "stays clear" by Benwar.) Both products dry rapidly and should be applied to the shell while outdoors. Don't forget to clean the shell (I would brush the shell with a anti-bacterial soap or Hydrogen peroxide and rinse it well. Do not apply a sealant util the shell has completely dried.)
Don't take my word for it, consult your vet (who is likely to suggest fiberglass ~ I personally find it harder to work with as it is more work to prepair, harder to apply and seems to be more caustic.) Mention this post to your vet and have him/her
e-mail me if they want with any questions. Thanx and good luck, Leo
Skin & Scales

I, personally, have never seen significant scute regeneration and this seems like it could case more harm than benefit by sealing in potental infective agents, even after topical disinfection. Have you had personal (or first person observation) of the efficay of this type of "sealing"? I'm always open minded about a new theraphy mode.

Hi Erico ~ I have personal experience with aquatic and non-aquatic turtles when it comes to having significant scute damage or loss. A couple of brief case histories ~I was presented with a pair of red-eared sliders a few years back, the two turtles had significant scute loss and deterioration of the underlying bone as well. The turtles were active and thriving. I cleaned the damaged areas with rubbing alcohol and again with hydrogen peroxide which removes (on a cellular level) the outer layer of tissue (whether muscle or bone as in this case.) By removing the outer layer of cells, it encourageges new healthy growth. Anyway, the turtles were thoroughly dried and sealed in a clear polyeurothane sealant and returned to their new habitats. Within two years, the shells had completely regenerated the lost keratin and had even integrity of the shell.
Another case was with an 3 year old African Spurred Tortoise. The tortoise was returned to the breeder (me in this case) and was placed in an outdoor enclosure with its parents (I wasn't aware of this right away.) Long story short, the female tortoise was showing signs of territoriality by pushing around the smaller 3 year old. The smaller tortoise was pinned against a fence and the side of the carapace was caved in. Due to a lack of natural sunlight, the smaller tortoises shell was rather rubbery and broke easily. When it was found shortly after, internal organs (lungs, intestines etc.) were visible through the collapsed area. Fortunately, because the shell was soft, I was able to clean the damaged area of debri and (I used hydrogen peroxide to disinfect the damaged bone) pop the crushed shell back out. I then proceeded to seal the damaged area (missing much of the keratin and showing exposed bone) with Marine epoxy by GOOP. This sealant stayed on the shell strong for over a year allowing the bone to heal and keratin to regenerate along the damaged area. The epoxy began to peal off on its own after a years time.
I agree with you that turtles can do fine in many cases without the keratin (I have seen that myself) but when the opportunity arises to potentially correct the problem areas, I like to act on it. I hoep this information helps and I will try to get a picture up later on of the African Spurred Tortoise, showing the repaired area. Thanx, Leo
Skin & Scales

Hey Everyone,

THANK YOU ALL FOR ALL YOUR INPUT AND HELP!! IT HAS BEEN GREATLY APPRECIATED!! I will continue to update everyone on the subject. There has been significant recovery after treating her and keeping her dry. I clean the shell daily and keep her dry. I have been treating her with heavy salt water and a topical cream for turtles. The coloration in the scutes is comming back inprressively and the rest of her once dry and cracked shell has healed to an impressive nice ans shiny with great coloration. I will update as soon as I see more progress.

Thank you all soooo much!!

Luis

I've seen this before. It looks like shell rot. Put it in good clean conditions, and it should stop spreading. However, the color will never go away. It is not the bone.

Mark