Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK...I posted this a while back on another thread but I'm not sure if anybody got it...so here goes....

I am trying to figure out if one of some of the white snakes will in fact take color. I know everyone wants to mix the Super Cinnamon so that they can make solid colored snakes...but often times...it probably wouldn't be the color we are looking for. Use Caramel as an example. Some say we breed Caramel into the Super Cinnamon...we get an all caramel snake. Wouldn't the black have alot to do with the way the color of the snake came out? Just look at what it did to the pastel...and even the cinnamon to the spider...it looks more like a cinnamon than anything...it hardly picked up any of the color from the spider.

I'm just wondering if we could actually create these colors with one of the white snakes. I was thinking mostly on the lines of the Pearls or Ivories. Maybe we can get the all Caramel snake if we breed it into a pearl??
Maybe I'm way off base...but I just want to see one of the white snakes take some color from a different morph and be able to control what solid colors we can produce...unlike the Super Cinnamon which we wouldn't know what would come out until we did it the first time.

What are your opinions on this?
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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

I thought about that,and i believe the lucy gene is supposed to have been known to kill all pigment(like a default setting).
However,after seeing the ivorys yellow dorsal line and another with some patches of color..then there is the super woma.A real dirty lucy.It makes me think the best lucy is one that HAS some sort of pigmentation.So as to be able to see the added mutations down the road,and be aesthetically pleasing as well as valued for it genetics.

...can i get 98 cents change?
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Charles Glaspie

Tanstaafl:
"There ain't no such thing as a free lunch".
An acronym created by my favorite author Robert A. Heinlein.

I agree that the Super Cinnamon is the wrong 'solid colour' gene to use in some of these solid colour projects.

The Cinnamon gene appears to eliminate most yellow pigments, and the Super Cinnamon causes the background colour (black in the case of Cinnamon Pastels) to be the lone colour.

Would a Super Cinnamon Caramel be purple then? Or would the influence of the Super Cinnamon alter the shade/tone of the caramel's purple? I think it would judging by what it does to the pastel gene in the case of the 'Silver Bullet' balls. Maybe the Super Cinnamon Caramel would have a darker purple than the caramels??

I think the patternless gene to be used in these projects would be Ralph Davis's patternless animal, or VPI's patternless animal. But then again, the colour of the saddles/aliens/blotches is dominant in Ralph's & VPI's patternless animals. So would a patternless Caramel using these genes be solid yellow??

As for the Leucistic animals, I have no clue as to what might happen.
Just my opinion, but I think Leucistic in the wrong term for some of these animals. Whichever ones ARE Leucistic will probably cancel out just about all pigments. The Albino Leucistic texas ratsnakes are a good example. They are white with a pink 'tinge' and have red eyes.

And the ones that aren't Leucistic? I think Ralph's Lesser X Phantom are definitely a co-dom and not a Leucistic. Phantoms have very little yellow, and Lessers have very little melanin (browns/blacks). Greatly reduced melanin + greatly reduced xanthin (yellow) = An animal showing very little xanthin or melanin. With BPs being mainly coloured in xanthin and melanin this results in animals with virtually no pigments to speak of.

Comparable to this would be blizzard cornsnakes. Charcoal (anerythristic, as well as greatly reduced xanthin) + albino (no melanin) results in a virtually white snake, since it eliminates the three pigments in corns (melanin, xanthin, and erythrin).

What do I think are the 'true leucistic' BPs? Vin Russo's Blue-eyeds, Eric Davies Black-eyeds, and I'm on the fence on Ralph's Platty X Lesser and Lesser X Lesser.

While Eric Davies Black-eyeds do show pigment 'flakes' here and there, so do Leucistic Texas Ratsnakes from time to time.

Super Mojaves are just that Super Mojaves. Too much grey/lavender colouration for me to think Leucistic.

But since Greg Graziani hatched out those Blue-eyed beauties from Mojave X Russo Lemon, who knows what the heck is what, eh?? LOL

Great thread BTW!

BB
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"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me

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Luke Martin
Bronze Serpent Reptiles

I'm as surprised as you are that only two people responded.
I KNOW there's more than three people with an opinion on this. lol

*I* think it's a good discussion. I'm sorry others didn't partake. Could have been a much better thread.

Happy Herping!

BB
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"Have you hugged your drummer today?" --- Me