Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Tom and Tina “males” are our two eastern box turtles that have lived together for
A year and half with no serious problems. Tom is the smaller at 13 oz and Tina the other male at about 18 oz and is clearly bigger and appears stronger.
Tom would go after Tina a few times now and then in an aggressive manor, but Tina just ignored him and was passive about it. Most times they walked, ate and slept together with no problems it was to the point that Tom all but quit going after Tina. They live in a garden about 15 x 20 with all the things they needed
and appeared content. Every night they went inside to a 2x4 enclosure with heat rocks, logs, caves and water. And in the morning went back to the garden and ate worms, berries, fruit, and tomatoes and lay in the sun or under logs.
This was their life and they seemed happy.

What happen next is like something out of a horror movie. We were out of town for a few days and came home late Saturday night around midnight, checked the boys and saw that their water dish and living area was messed up more than usual and Tina was walking around and Tom was all shut up in his shell, not like him. I picked Tom and could see blood on him and all around the pen on their rocks logs and water dish. I had to hold Tom quite awhile o get him to come out of his shell. His front right leg had a big gash in it and he could hardy move it. His left front leg was cut open too. His right rear leg had a large gash also; His neck had wounds to both sides of his turtle neck. There’s more Toms shell right above his head was ground down from being gnawed on, ground all color of till it was white. On his under side at his hinge area that also had been gnawed at on both sides apparently to weaken his muscles that hold it shut.

Tina has always been so passive and quite she apparently snapped.

Tom must have tried to fight back as Tina sustained wounds also though not as bad as Tom. Both Tina’s front legs were bitten and had blood on then. Tinas left rear leg had a bloody gash in it like Toms front leg. And Tinas nose had a chunk taken out of it.

I guess instincts are deeply inbred in males box turtles.

They are now separated and we our taking care of their injuries, I don’t blame either turtle as I’m the one that brought them togehter, I know exactly where Tina came from and will return Him to that area.
Tom Has had too many personal injuries and will live with us.
I wonder if anyone else has witnessed this type behavior before.

norris

I have NEVER had a situation that bad. It sounds as if another animal like a raccoon or even a rat got into your enclosure and did that damage. It sounds just too much. If a boxie closes up - the fight should be over because the other boxie should not be able to get to it. - It possible but I find that very unusual. Check your enclosure before you do anything! You may have had a visitor trying to make a meal of them.

we are looking into the possibilty on another creature now, we think our home is safe and tight, but maybe not, thanks for the feed back
norris

Male turtles can be EXTREMELY aggressive, and even fight to the death. I have had situations arise here, where I've had to seperate males, literally prying the mouth open to remove it from another. It's only happened twice, so noone has been badly hurt.
Dominant males WILL attack smaller/younger males as well, to establish a heirarchy. And yes, pecking the edge of the shell, near the head, even right down to the bone (or through it), is what a more dominant male will do to a smaller male.

So its not out of the realm of possiblity that one attacked the other. Do not rule it out.
One thing that might help you determine if it was a turtle attack or another creature is the nature of the wounds: since turtles don't have teeth, they probably wouldn't leave a ragged gnawed-on looking wound, but probably more of a clean edged cut.

>>Male turtles can be EXTREMELY aggressive, and even fight to the death.

I believe that is true, but whether this is what happened between Tom & Tina though of course I wouldn't know.
Years ago when I was a kid we moved to this region into a house that already had turtles in the backyard. One morning 2 males got in a fight. Although they didn't get into a bloody fight, one male got the other on his back & stood there holding him down until my Dad broke it up. We always thought that the one holding the other down really was trying to kill him.
Now that we have Hobo the male I'd be very reluctant to take in another male because of what we saw years ago.

Good luck with treating the injured one! I hope he heals quickly.
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PHRatz

Your turtles did not do that damage to eachother. I am 99% sure in saying this. A raccoon most likely got to your boys. The damage to me sounds similar to how a raccoon attacks. He was most likely(the raccoon) was trying to pry the turtles shells open which is why there is marks on(tom's) the top of his shell. My guess is your turtles may have been in there water dish when the raccoon attacked, which is why your turtle didn't close its shell and as a result was attacked on its limbs. I very much doubt that they would do this to each other. My reasoning for this is because they lived together for so long and for aggression this brutal to suddenly happen is strange. Also there is no female in the picture correct? Males are usually aggressive like this in the presence of a female. I'm sure there are circumstances where they will be aggressive without the female, but on this level i don't think so. Also my expierence with males fighting is they attack the front of the turtles and not the back. Also i don't think your turtle tina would be capable of doing that kind of damage to the top of tom's shell. If I were you i would somehow try to put a roof over the enclosure to prevent further attacks.

>>They are now separated and we our taking care of their injuries, I don’t blame either turtle as I’m the one that brought them togehter, I know exactly where Tina came from and will return Him to that area.

Norris didn't you say that Tom & Tina have lived together since they were tiny babies?
If Tina has been captive for many years there is a good chance that left alone to fend for himself he may not be able to do that.
Could you build a divider so that you can keep them both IF it turns out that they were fighting & not attacked by another animal?
I have a lost box turtle, I'd only had her for 15 months & she was very ill when I got her. She recovered quickly so she spent most of her time here appearing to be a healthy turtle. Our tortoise put her leg through the fencing last Oct. which bent it & enabled my lost one to get out of the pen.
I still look for her, it's been 10 months since she vanished but I worry about her so much. I have no idea if she was CB or WC, I have no idea how long she'd been captive with her former owner who allowed her to get so sick that she nearly died.
All I can do is hope that some kind person picked her up or that after 15 months of rehab she can make it on her own.. or that she'll show up here again.
The idea that she's out there alone & knowing it's possible that she can't find food by herself & live on her own just kills me.
The idea that Tina may not be able to find food on his own is something to think about. :-x
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PHRatz

It was a RAT!

I trapped it and it's dead.
Tom and Tina are going to the vet tomorrow at 11 o'clock Tom has neck wounds pretty bad along with the other injuries, he can hardly move his one front leg yet he tries to walk, it's enough to make you cry.

Thank you all for the response's

I'll keep you posted on their recovery.

Thanks again Norris

I figured it was rat or a raccoon - the injuries was just too much. Never have I seen a dominant male go for all the others' limbs and try to take it off. It's just not "box turtle like". Maybe a few snaps near the head but not to the extreme way you described it. I have probably the most dominant males in the world but if their is enough room to retreat, most will be given that opportunity to do so - it's just nature's way. When boxies fight, they will lock on - but will release after a few minutes - they don't keep on chomping down in the same area. Usually, the other boxie retracts it & stays put. After an hour or two of trying to get to the other, they normally give up being the other one "went home".
I am so glad you killed the rat. However - BE CAREFUL! Check your enclosure again with a baseball bat! - I would NOT be surprised if there was another one in it. If he got in, so can a second one. I would hate to be feeding them and have a cornered rat jump at me when I am least expecting it. Think of a way to seal your enclosure if possible. His wounds sound very, very serious. Actually, I hope he didn't lose his leg. He sounds like he has so many serious injuries, it "could" be critical. I wish you guys the best of luck!

Definitely be on the lookout for more of them...!
I sure hope he doesn't lose the leg: a trip to the vet is definitely in order. Turtles have incredible recuperative abilities, so hopefully you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Good luck
Stephanie

I am so glad you found the answer to the problem!

Good luck & please do keep us updated on them.
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PHRatz