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Daughter wants a tortoise... Where to start?

toddg Aug 28, 2005 02:23 PM

My five year old daughter REALLY wants a tortoise and I know ZERO about them. I have been browsing on the net and have a general idea of the care, however, I want to ensure the safety and well being of this animal before he/she becomes a member of the family. What species are suggested as family pets? Also, please provide links to sites you feel have the BEST and most accurate caresheets.

Any info that you are willing to share would be most appreciated. I am trying to decide whether a tortoise is the right choice for us.

Thanks a million,
Todd G.

Feel free to email me:
bayoubeav@yahoo.com

If I do not respond quickly it is because of hurricane Katrina.

Replies (15)

VICtort Aug 28, 2005 03:04 PM

Please consider before you commit: a tortoise is a life long friend if you care for it, 40-100 year life spans are normal. They do not show affection, they interact with you only if motivated by food, they retreat when frightened (easily stressed), they have little/no loyalty to the owner, they just sort of exist and want to be left alone. They are easily lost if you turn your back in the yard... They are prone to health problems if you do not consistently provide for their needs. They are not "child proof", and will be damaged/killed if dropped or over handled. They are very different and not nearly as personable as the tortoises we see in animation etc. Most kids love animals that they can interact with...i.e. puppies. Many kids grow quickly bored with sedentary animals and the long suffering parents inherit the responsibility or the animals suffers from neglect... For a caring and thoughtful person, they may offer a fun and rewarding experience, but most young children simply do not have the maturity to fully benefit. I urge you to consider a more "cuddly" and interactive animal, such as a mammal. A well cared for rat or hamster can be fun, the rats are very interactive and affectionate and surprisingly trainable. They are geniuses compared to tortoises! I want you to have a good experience with tortoises, but I urge you to wait until your child is older and shows a sustained and long term interest. In the meantime, frequent trips to your local Zoo are the Rx. Best wishes, Vic

deven Aug 30, 2005 01:32 AM

great points but what if they DO want one? what would you say to them then?

Sincerely,

Deven Nicholson
Terra5Designs | 925-465-1295
Walnut Creek California

Ensuring Animal Husbandry through Education and Habitat Design.

VICtort Aug 28, 2005 03:08 PM

Another thing to consider for young children and reptile pets. Some reptiles can be carriers of Salmonella, and will require sanitatio/hygeine to avoid exposures. This has probably been exagerated as a health risk, but many 5 year old have a hard time keeping their fingers out of their mouths, eyes, nose...why take the chance with so many other alternatives?

deven Aug 30, 2005 01:37 AM

The CDC and CID have proven that 6% of all reported cases of salamelila (sp) show some contact with reptiles. most are from dog-cat-bird poo and dirt. also the kitchen sponge was higher in regards to rod count then herps. listed infect herps: iguana, turtle (not tortoise), garter snakes and salamanders...anyway.
it's also proven that the "gel" rub at most herps shops doesn't stop the bacteria. rubbing your hands with soap does.

i've found that a clean environment, happy herps and the right habitat lower the risk greatly!

Sincerely,

Deven Nicholson
Terra5Designs | 925-465-1295
Walnut Creek California

Ensuring Animal Husbandry through Education and Habitat Design.

unchikun Aug 30, 2005 03:38 PM

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to second-gess you at all! I'm one of those who think that the whole Salmonella scare is blown *way* out of porportion, and I'd appreciate reading up on that information if you have any links handy. The kitchen sponge bit doesn't surprise me at all; those are so nasty, but people keep then around seemingly forever and wash plates and such that *food* goes on with them... and use those nasty bath/shower sponge/"pouf" things over and over that harbor so much bacteria hanging in the shower... and these people turn around and say that *reptiles* are nasty!

*thinks her tortoise is probably cleaner than most peoples' kids...*

VICtort Aug 31, 2005 03:26 PM

Regarding salmonella, my information is mostly anecdotal, and I am not representing the medical/health establishment. I have seen extensive charts of the dozens of various salmonella forms isolated from reptiles, the source was Dr.Frye at UCD, a very celebrated herp DVM. CDC has also addressed the issue with turtles. I agree and stated in my post that the risk has been exagerated. Anecdotally, I have kept reptiles of many types for over 40 years. I have almost certainly been exposed, but I am lucky to have stong resistance. I just wanted to inform the would-be tortoise buyer that some evidence exists that many reptiles may carry it so he would be informed and be cautious about sanitation with a 5 year old child. I am also aware that life is risk, and that many of us are exposed to salmonella via food, bad restaurants, counter tops etc.

unchikun Aug 31, 2005 03:52 PM

don't get me wrong, i wasn't trying to dismiss the advice of anyone who was stating that it *is* a risk, especially with regards to young kids (whose cleanliness habits can't always be supervised) or perhaps those with compromised immune systems -- not at all!

i wanted to be sure that you weren't thinking that i was being a smartass or directing anything at anyone in particular!

i just think that it's funny how some people think reptiles are such intrinsically dirty creatures, yet they themselves are exposed to as much or worse on a daily basis from everyday things (or, perhaps, would think nothing of, say, kissing their dog, which grosses me out!). i've only kept an iguana and my redfoot (though i've handled per and wild reptiles on many occasions) and never been sick from it.

VICtort Aug 31, 2005 09:06 PM

Fair enough, we both made valid points. Your reference to other peoples kids is really humorous. When I was a kid, before I knew better, I might easily have had a snake in one hand and a pop-sicle in the other, so I believe transmission of Salmonella is not necesarily guaranteed or even likely. I wouldn't be surprised if many of us get exposed from all the various and sundry sources and fail to become symptomatic. And it would be fun to know if CDC gathered data from lab tests as well as anecdotal interviews. I have never allowed iguanas or any other animal to defecate on my counter tops...yet others do. Good luck, that is a fine looking littel RF.

DaviDC. Aug 28, 2005 03:41 PM

As someone who's had a fascination with turtles since age 5, I can honestly say that she's too young to properly care for one. My 1st experience with death was the tiny green turtle I got when I was 5. I put his plastic lagoon in the sun one day because I thought it might be good for him. Yeah, right; we all know how that ended.

Maybe set a goal; tell she can have one when she's 8. In the mean time, have her read (or read to her) everything you can lay your hands on regarding tortoises. If her interest continues, by that time she ought to know exactly what kind she wants & have the knowledge to care for it. Ply her with stuffed turtles & tortoises & books & jewelery until that day comes. And good luck!
-----

EJ Aug 28, 2005 04:42 PM

A tortoise is a dynamite pet. It looks like you will obviously be providing the guidnce which is great. This kind of pet is a great learning and teaching opportunity.

I'd suggest a Russian, Redfoot or any of the Testudos (which are the European tortoises.

Here are some links that should be helpful and try not to let some of the overzelous tortoise people freak you out. I found some of the pest tortoise keepers are the ones who 'don't have a clue'.

http://www.tortoise.org/
http://tortoisetrust.org/
http://www.chelonia.org/
http://www.turtlehomes.org/
http://members.tripod.com/~Draybar/redfootcare.html
http://www.russiantortoise.net/
http://www.tlady.clara.net/id16.htm

These are some of the better that I like. They all have usable info... (and some that is not)
-----
Ed @ Tortoise Keepers
Trying to keep the fun in Chelonian care

gabycher Aug 28, 2005 08:12 PM

...At three years old my daughter fell in love with turtles and tortoises and two years later she had any plastic- and stuffed animal turtle and any turtle book we could get our hands on.
Then at 5 years old she got the only tortoise we had ever seen offered in our region,- a 2 year old captive bred redfoot (one should add, that we live in the Canadian Capitol region).
I had had Hermann's tortoises when I was young (in Europe), and they would have been easier to care for, but are not available here. This was 3 years ago.
In our specific case I fortunately totally fell in love with 'Kathrin' and she has since been joined by 3 more babies. But over the last 3 years I have spent almost every bit of my spare time learning and researching about these animals. Needless to say, that it is not my, now 8 year old, daughter, who washes loads of greens and fruit for the tortoises, cuts it up, feeds them, changes their water dishes, fills up the misting system and takes care of UV and heating devices. She also refuses to even look at poopy bath water. Needless to say too, that purchasing the tortoise (at $450) was nothing compared to the costs that came with her.
My daughter is still in love with turtles and tortoises, but not with the fact, that she has to wash her hands before and after handling them and not with the fact, that they tend to poop and pee when handled. This is not the case for the ones I raised from 2 weeks old, and also the older one is much more adjusted now, but even the handling by a careful kid can be stressful for a tortoise. They simply are no play animals.
My daughter talks to them and checks on them, when she thinks of it, but otherwise they are totally my hobby (and one, that needs an understanding spouse, as it is, as mentioned, time consuming and expensive). Going on vacation is another issue. It is not easy to find somebody, who can come to our house every other day and do one and a half hours of tortoise chores.
Maybe of course, you or your husband would make this tortoise your hobby, and maybe you live in a region, where outdoor keeping is possible for a good part of the year, and where no predators make an outdoor fortress a necessity (like in our case). But be prepared, that a tortoise needs a lot more than some salad every day. The mentioned websites will give a glimps on what you might face.
Again,- our tortoises have become my passion (and their infrastructure has been provided and built by my very supportive husband), and my daughter loves them too. But they have by no means become a pet to play with for her. They are interesting to observe. But the attention span of a still young kid for observation is limited, as you sure know.

Hopefully this and the very considerate answers you have already got in the previous posts will make your decision easier.
Best of luck,
Gaby

deven Aug 30, 2005 01:41 AM

this happens a lot! a client has a kid who wants the coolest vivarium for some reptile and a few months later during my maintenance, the dad asks more then the kid. five months, the kid isn't there and the mom and dad talk about how to incubate eggs...or pay me to remove the animals and relocate the now terrarium to the den. sad.

i hear ball pythons are good first large herps for folks.

Sincerely,

Deven Nicholson
Terra5Designs | 925-465-1295
Walnut Creek California

Ensuring Animal Husbandry through Education and Habitat Design.

Spiddy Aug 29, 2005 02:30 PM

The reality is that any pet given to a 5-year-old is the responsibility of that child's parent. A 5-year-old cannot be expected to keep a dog, a rat, a goldfish or tortoise alive without a parent's supervision. My daughter's sulcata tortoise would die if I didn't oversee its husbandry. I'm teaching her slowly about its needs and together we're planting and building its outdoor enclosure. It's a great father-daughter endeavor. My feeling is that if your child is showing an interest in reptiles, and you have the means to foster that interest, it would be a shame to deny it. Of course, I realize that my daughter's interests will likely change one day, and I will be the adopted father of a large-sized, long-lived tortoise. But that's ok because I enjoy it too.

deven Aug 30, 2005 01:44 AM

wow. some one finally speaks about the tools to teach kids how to LEARN! right on. if a kid isn't teachable, meaning if a child doesn't know how to learn then all the time in the world won't help.

toddg Aug 31, 2005 03:50 PM

My power has just been restored today since the arrival of hurricane Katrina. This is why I had yet to respond.

I want to thank everyone for their input and suggestions. I am not new to reptiles as I have been a hobbiest for 15 years, mainly pythons and other snakes. My wife and I are well aware that this will be OUR responsibility until my daughter is old enough to care for the animal. Even then, she may lose interest.

This is something we will continue to research before the purchase of an animal. I would like to foster her appreciation and intrigue with tortoises, and hope she maintains her interest over the years. This is important to me since reptiles has played such a meaningful role in my life.

Thanks again everyone for answering my questions.

Sincerely,
Todd G.

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