Reptile & Amphibian Forums

on the Saimr polyvalent anti. i was told it was a mere under $100 US money ( way under ) but the paper work and so, was the expensive part and to get it to where the treatment had to administered was part of the expense ( seems logical ). But with most hospitals not having anything other than Crotalide Polyvalent or now with Cro-Fab, I'm told that it would be this serum used and the expense of the serum compared to the Saimr is how many more times as much money ? This also seems logical on a bitus tag if there was any timed relevant treatment involved. Yes, I would imagine several zoos might have the Saimr on hand as well as the venom banks ( don't know how many there really is )but again, would the bite victim have time to wait with other procedures happening for the serum to arrive ?

Thanks
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

SAIMR polyvalent is the only effective antivenom for envenomations from Bitis species. CroFab would be useless.

Cheers
Bryan
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Dr. Bryan Grieg Fry
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Australian Venom Research Unit,
University of Melbourne
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Population and Evolutionary Genetics Unit,
Museum Victoria
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http://www.venomdoc.com

it was you that i hoping to here this from. But so then there would be no alternative other than treatment for other symptoms that goes with the bite. I hope that a university medical facility has changed their opinion on this as i will follow up to see.
Thank you again.
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

Hi:

Where do you live and what University Hospital are you talking about? This is why it's very important to bring the correct bite protocols with you to the hospital, including the phone numbers of "experts" who really know what to do and will coach the physician in areas he or she is "weak in". For a site with good protocols see link below.

Dr Fry and I know the sad tail of physicians giving the wrong serum (CroFab) for an Urutu bite and thinking all was well. The patient died in about 36 hours because their blood had lost the ability to clot. I would imagine the patients family will OWN the hospital soon but it doesn't bring them back.

The SAVP poly is effective against the bite of the Puff Adders, Rhino Vipers, and Gaboon Vipers for sure. It has some effect against SOME of the "Dwarf" species: Caudalis, Cornuta and others... but NOT Atropos.

Cheers!
Al Coritz
North Eastern Antivenom Bank
www.neavb.org

0.1 Bitis cornuta

Protocol Index

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You can take the snake out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of the snake.

From what I could gather of the story of the OH woman who died from the bite of her Urutu, lack of a proper bite protocol may have also contributed to her unfortunate demise. While doctors did act extremely irresponsibly by adminstering Crofab, the woman arrived in the hospital conscious (by the accounts I heard, she drove herself there), and even telephoned a friend in FL for advice on treating the bite.

I can't say for certain that she was conscious when the decision to administer Crofab was made, but that is a null point. Had she had the proper contacts and a proper bite protocol, she might still be with us today.

I'm in no way trying to bash this individual...what happened was tragic...tragic, but preventable, by both the doctors AND the patient.

If anyone else has any information regarding this bite that I may have stated incorrectly or left out, please feel free to correct me.

While I can't discuss many details of this case, she was certainly responsive till near the end. I agree having good protocols with you at your arrival at Hospital is a must, it doesn't mean the Physicians will even take a look at them. Like with any other profession sometimes ego & personal pride will cloud the judgment of some Physicians. After all the patient is just some common "wacko" that keeps venomous snakes and he/shes is the god like Physician. You or your advocate needs to explain to them in no uncertain terms that they need to act on them or be replaced.

Cheers!

Al
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You can take the snake out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of the snake.

This is where having a good relationship with your local ER staff works miracles...if they know who you are and what you do BEFORE an accident happens, they may be more inclined to listen to you and look at your protocols in the unfortunate event you land in the emergency room with a bite. You may not get to talk to every single doctor or nurse in the ER, but knowing a few of them can help get them on your side in case a renegade doc decides to follow his own will and whim.

Again, what happened to this woman was tragic, but it serves as a reminder to all of us (or it should) that proper bite protocols and good relationships with the doctors at the ER are of grave importance.

If a hospital says they're going to treat you for a bitis bte with CroFab, tell them to call someone with a clue (poison control, miami-dade fire rescue) while you call you're lawyer...

that it was Cro-Fab thinking that Crotalide or what we called the common horse serum of polyvalent has been replaced. So if it was of past as this info wasn't on Cro-fab, is there any use of the older serum in a bitus group bite ? And even if it isn't, wouldn't the cost factor of the Saimr be up there in terms of expense for treatment no matter what the serum still costs oringinally due to...........
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I may be old , cantankerous, crabby, and cynical, but......

The replacement of Wyeth crotalid polyvalent with Cro-Fab has nothing to do with the treatment of Bitis envenomations.
SAIMR's antivenin has always been the treatment of choice for Bitis.

~~Greg~~