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Finally!

Sunshine Aug 28, 2005 08:19 PM

After almost 27 1/2 weeks I have babies! 14 in all with no slugs (unless she ate them) and no stillborns. I managed to get one shot of the goo pile and watchful Mom before my camera stopped working. I hope it is just the batteries and that one pic was actually stored to memory.

I have a question for you folks.....
2 babies have a slight crook at the end of their tail that can be felt but not really seen. These don't concern me much, however there is a third one with a visible deviation. I'm not sure what to do about it.

Several of these also have partial striping just past their heads. Several more have lots of connected dorsal rings. It's different from my past litters.

Linda

Replies (15)

Sunshine Aug 28, 2005 10:14 PM

I really don't know what to think of this litter. They seem healthy and robust, but I'm disappointed in the way they look. I will not repeat this breeding. I don't know what to think of the connected dorsal ring thing. Just out of curiosity....if this exact breeding were to be repeated could I expect more of the same with more emphasis on crooked tails and connected dorsals? I am kinda going for a look here and this just wasn't it. Please don't get me wrong....I am thrilled to have a healthy, biting, fullterm litter but I have an idea (could be egotistical) of what I would to produce and I want to be moving toward it.

anyway....must have been the batteries......

jon4534 Aug 28, 2005 10:37 PM

You made me think you had a snake named Battery...and it died...lol

Sunshine Aug 29, 2005 07:59 PM

.

chrindels Aug 28, 2005 10:50 PM

Hey
the back pattern is different and somebody always likes different, Im sure they will pretty up soon enough, I would be alittle concerned about the crooked tail thing though. But who knows!
Congratulations on the litter!
Chris

Sunshine Aug 29, 2005 08:01 PM

You sure have an outstanding BRB! Very pretty.

Jeff Clark Aug 28, 2005 11:36 PM

Linda,
...Congratulations on the babies. The connected zigzag pattern along the back is fairly common. Those partial stripes are not so common. Some folks will be in a hurry to pay extra for them. The ones with just small defects at the tip of the tail will do fine. Many people are happy to buy snakes with small defects for a little less than regular price. Many breeders think, and perhaps correctly that pattern abnormalities, spinal kinks and more serious defects are caused by incubation/gestation temperature not being right on. I am not sure about that theory but I think if you have enough baby snakes you will have to eventually see some with defects. I have had quite a few snakes with defects born here over the years. A couple with one eye, one with no eyes, spinal kinks, malformed palates and one two headed Colombian Rainbow.
Jeff

>>I really don't know what to think of this litter. They seem healthy and robust, but I'm disappointed in the way they look. I will not repeat this breeding. I don't know what to think of the connected dorsal ring thing. Just out of curiosity....if this exact breeding were to be repeated could I expect more of the same with more emphasis on crooked tails and connected dorsals? I am kinda going for a look here and this just wasn't it. Please don't get me wrong....I am thrilled to have a healthy, biting, fullterm litter but I have an idea (could be egotistical) of what I would to produce and I want to be moving toward it.
>>
>>anyway....must have been the batteries......
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rainbowsrus Aug 29, 2005 12:10 AM

I had a litter last year with a few with abnormalities but all were stillborn, no eyes, one eye, brain on outside of head. Also had one from another litter with a bent lower jaw I sold as a pet for lower price.
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife
0.2 kids
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.1 Ball python
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

BrazGirl Aug 29, 2005 01:34 AM

Brain on outside? ouch... Poor little guy.
-----
)}{( Love and Serpents )}{(
_Caitlin

Jeff Clark Aug 29, 2005 02:25 AM

Dave,
....It lived about 5 weeks. One head ate pinky mice. It had two seperate normal looking heads and necks and then a rather ugly toady looking body for about 4 inches and then a single clean normal looking tail section. After eating it passed messy stools like it probably did not have a fully functional digestive system. I posted PICs on the old boa forum here on kingsnake 6 or 7 years ago. I was looking for a PIC of it recently but could not find one.
Jeff

>>I had a litter last year with a few with abnormalities but all were stillborn, no eyes, one eye, brain on outside of head. Also had one from another litter with a bent lower jaw I sold as a pet for lower price.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife
>>0.2 kids
>>4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
>>1.1 Ball python
>>0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
>>1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
>>0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
>>0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
>>0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Sunshine Aug 29, 2005 07:57 PM

Looking at these guys today gives me a different perspective. They are all very active and are doing well. Partial stripe wasn't very accurate a description. I should have been more specific. For about 1 to 2 inches starting at the base of their skull several have 2 side by side dorsal rings. These rings are elongated and about an inch or a little longer on one side or the other. Instead of a zig-zag they are connected almost completely straight forming more of a giant elongated oval type ring. Maybe there was something about the temps since this snake has a completely different set-up then what was previously used. It is in general 5 degrees cooler and higher in humidity. This female was of minimal age/maturity/weight as well although she was bred to a proven male. My first litter ever had a baby whose spine was kinked enoughed that I euthanized (maybe the wrong term here) immediately. I had to feel for 2 or the 3 kinks and really don't think I would have noticed the 2 if I wasn't looking for it. It never ocurred to me to checks for abnormalities or defects. I haven't ever checked a single one for a palate problem. we do this routinely on dogs and occasionally on cats, it just never crossed my mind.

Two questions.....
1) If this breeding were to be done again, I am understanding that a completely different outcome may happen. Is that correct?
2) Is it okay to probe them tomorrow? I actually met the other Rainbow fellow in Lubbock and he seems to be willing to help. I could probably keep 1 or 2 and 4 that I want to choose from.

Thanks,
Linda

>>Linda,
>>...Congratulations on the babies. The connected zigzag pattern along the back is fairly common. Those partial stripes are not so common. Some folks will be in a hurry to pay extra for them. The ones with just small defects at the tip of the tail will do fine. Many people are happy to buy snakes with small defects for a little less than regular price. Many breeders think, and perhaps correctly that pattern abnormalities, spinal kinks and more serious defects are caused by incubation/gestation temperature not being right on. I am not sure about that theory but I think if you have enough baby snakes you will have to eventually see some with defects. I have had quite a few snakes with defects born here over the years. A couple with one eye, one with no eyes, spinal kinks, malformed palates and one two headed Colombian Rainbow.
>>Jeff
>>
>>>>I really don't know what to think of this litter. They seem healthy and robust, but I'm disappointed in the way they look. I will not repeat this breeding. I don't know what to think of the connected dorsal ring thing. Just out of curiosity....if this exact breeding were to be repeated could I expect more of the same with more emphasis on crooked tails and connected dorsals? I am kinda going for a look here and this just wasn't it. Please don't get me wrong....I am thrilled to have a healthy, biting, fullterm litter but I have an idea (could be egotistical) of what I would to produce and I want to be moving toward it.
>>>>
>>>>anyway....must have been the batteries......
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>>
-----
When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teachers appears.

Jeff Clark Aug 29, 2005 11:25 PM

Linda,
....I think there is a very good chance the same pair could produce a litter with no defects and no pattern aberrancies. I think probing them early is a good idea. They are not quite as strong as they will be in a few weeks and so they are easier to probe. Of course you know to be very careful probing them.
Jeff

>>Looking at these guys today gives me a different perspective. They are all very active and are doing well. Partial stripe wasn't very accurate a description. I should have been more specific. For about 1 to 2 inches starting at the base of their skull several have 2 side by side dorsal rings. These rings are elongated and about an inch or a little longer on one side or the other. Instead of a zig-zag they are connected almost completely straight forming more of a giant elongated oval type ring. Maybe there was something about the temps since this snake has a completely different set-up then what was previously used. It is in general 5 degrees cooler and higher in humidity. This female was of minimal age/maturity/weight as well although she was bred to a proven male. My first litter ever had a baby whose spine was kinked enoughed that I euthanized (maybe the wrong term here) immediately. I had to feel for 2 or the 3 kinks and really don't think I would have noticed the 2 if I wasn't looking for it. It never ocurred to me to checks for abnormalities or defects. I haven't ever checked a single one for a palate problem. we do this routinely on dogs and occasionally on cats, it just never crossed my mind.
>>
>>Two questions.....
>>1) If this breeding were to be done again, I am understanding that a completely different outcome may happen. Is that correct?
>>2) Is it okay to probe them tomorrow? I actually met the other Rainbow fellow in Lubbock and he seems to be willing to help. I could probably keep 1 or 2 and 4 that I want to choose from.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Linda
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Linda,
>>>>...Congratulations on the babies. The connected zigzag pattern along the back is fairly common. Those partial stripes are not so common. Some folks will be in a hurry to pay extra for them. The ones with just small defects at the tip of the tail will do fine. Many people are happy to buy snakes with small defects for a little less than regular price. Many breeders think, and perhaps correctly that pattern abnormalities, spinal kinks and more serious defects are caused by incubation/gestation temperature not being right on. I am not sure about that theory but I think if you have enough baby snakes you will have to eventually see some with defects. I have had quite a few snakes with defects born here over the years. A couple with one eye, one with no eyes, spinal kinks, malformed palates and one two headed Colombian Rainbow.
>>>>Jeff
>>>>
>>>>>>I really don't know what to think of this litter. They seem healthy and robust, but I'm disappointed in the way they look. I will not repeat this breeding. I don't know what to think of the connected dorsal ring thing. Just out of curiosity....if this exact breeding were to be repeated could I expect more of the same with more emphasis on crooked tails and connected dorsals? I am kinda going for a look here and this just wasn't it. Please don't get me wrong....I am thrilled to have a healthy, biting, fullterm litter but I have an idea (could be egotistical) of what I would to produce and I want to be moving toward it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>anyway....must have been the batteries......
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>-----
>> When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teacher appears. When the student is ready, the teachers appears.

rainbowsrus Aug 29, 2005 12:06 AM

Glad to hear your litter finally came. Like Jeff said, the ones with kinks should be np, I had a couple like that two years ago and as they grew the kinks mostly went away. I ended up selling them to a pet store as "pet quality unsexable due to the kink" for a lower than usual price.
-----
Thanks,

Dave "Rainbows-R-Us"

0.1 Wife
0.2 kids
4.12 Brazilian Rainbow Boa
1.1 Ball python
0.1 BCI "Elvira" normal from 1989
1.0 BCI albino / het-anery
0.1 BCI Hypo / het-albino
0.1 BCI Anery / het-albino
0.1 BCI Hypo (possible super)

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Sunshine Aug 29, 2005 08:03 PM

.

Chris Olson Aug 29, 2005 06:58 PM

np
-----
www.chrisolsonreptiles.com
Naked I see the camp of those who desire nothing

Sunshine Aug 29, 2005 08:05 PM

Where have you been? I miss ya

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