Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Answers would be great thanks!
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Wonderful Mom to:
3 Bearded Dragons
25 color morph Ball Pythons
2 Columbian Red Tails
1 Bunny
4 Dogs
1 Florida Panther

they certainly can breed successfully together but it isn't recommended. There is a greater chance for negative genetic defects to show up, poorer overall health of the of the babies, etc. Often breeders will line breed (ie inbreed) daughters to fathers or mothers to sons, inorder to bring out a particular color/pattern morph, but many outbreed the line as well, to keep the genetics from getting to inbred.

it is better to breed a brother sister combo than a father daughter or a son mother....

see .the brother sister share "most" of the same genes.....whereas the parent to offspring....the offsprings are carrying ALL the same genes as the parent.....

inbreeding is better than line breeding.....

it takes generations to make defects showable......

do it..but not over and over for generations.......(they used to say 7 generations)....

there are mice for sle from labs that are guarenteed inbred for like up to 5 or even 7 or more generations and also mice that are guarenteed outbred for generations...

inbreeding is done everywhere,every year,by everybody.......
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.............yes .......thanx........but could you repeat that again....in English this time?...................

a brother sister combo share 100% of their genetic makeup, while they only recieve 50% of each parent's genes. Therefore, breeding a son to a mother would be less inbreeding than breeding siblings.

True, offspring inherit 50% of their genetic material from each of their Mother and Father. However, which chromosome of each pair is passed on is a random and individual event. Events such as crossing over of genetic material between pairs further serves to form a completely randomized gamete.

Therefore, although siblings draw their genetic material from the same pool, they will never inherit the same 50% (excluding identical twins). Siblings, on average, share 25% of the same genetic material, or alleles (random 50% X random 50% = 25%).

As you said, offspring share 50% with either parent. But since siblings share only 25%, there is less inbreeding when breeding sibling to each other than there is when breeding offspring to parent.

It is good to see people on here that understand some genetics. It is better to breed sib to sib than parent to offspring!
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Ben

I'm thinking full siblings would average 50% too. I think you would add the 25% of the same genes from each parent. It's just that with parent offspring you are guaranteed 50% but with full siblings it only averages 50%. I agree that the sibling cross is better but I think it's only slightly.

If a male starts with AA, BB, and CC, and a female starts out with aa, bb, cc; then the babies will share 50% with either parents and 50% with each other. If you have a male with AA and a female with Aa, you have babies that will share 50% with one parent, and 100% with the other; while they have the same chances with siblings. It's a lot of chances, a lot of explaining how you want to define things, and a lot more debating the points. How closely siblings end up being genetically depends entirely on how close the parents are genetically. It's nothing we can determine by simple ratios without a clue about the parents genotypes. Either way, inbreeding will bring out negative recessive traits just as quickly as it brings out good recessive traits. Whether sibling-sibling or parent-offspring breeding would be better is a rather trivial point on these message board without first knowing as much detail as possible about the parents and offspring. The more genetically diverse the breeding, the less likely a bad recessive trait pops up, and less likely of a good recessive. The less genetically diverse the breeding, the more likely. It's not a call that can be made by people on a forum (or even in person) without first as much of the genetics as possible involved. I would recommend against inbreeding personally, but that doesn't have anything to do with whether parent-offspring or sibling-sibling is better. I'd just avoid it all around for a group of more diverse animals. For those involved in high end morph breeding with ball pythons, you may as well do parent-offspring unless there is a known defect. Without a known defect, all you're aiming for is a higher chance of an appearance mutation, and it's going to best be brought out by parent-offspring. No reason to mess around with sibling-siblings and getting 25% showing, and the rest being 66% hets. Parents and offspring- without extensive research and testing, you won't know which are actually closer. Don't worry about which is better or worse in someone's opinion. My humble advice, like all others, is to not over do it.

On the AA, BB, CC, with aa, bb, cc; I said the siblings would share 50% with each other, but they share 100%. I'm pretty tired, so I'm not sure if it was a typo or a brain fart... Oh well

I took a college bio course when I was in high school and the teacher tought it the way I wrote it. I feel kind of foolish now lol, sorry jhoye(did I spell that right).

did you just say florida panther?????????????

LOL, What an interesting debate. Thanks averybody for answering.

Yes I work at a wildlife park. I have raised lots of animals, but just last Ocotber I was offered to raise a FL Panther/ Cougar mix cub. This is him last month.

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Wonderful Mom to:
3 Bearded Dragons
25 color morph Ball Pythons
2 Columbian Red Tails
1 Bunny
4 Dogs
1 Florida Panther

I don't normally post in this forum but I saw it was a hot topic so I read it. I really don't have time to go into everything but what survey33 said is pretty much right on the money. You cannot talk about single alleles or punnett squares when you are discussing inheritence of a complete genome. As far as genetic crossover goes this does happen randomly and pieces of the genome come from the father and pieces from the mother. So at this point it is a probability issue. The question basically is what are the chances that the offspring will have the same genetic info or material as its sibling. Well it is possible that two share more than 50% of the same genetic material and it is possible that two siblings share 0% of the same gentic material. Those are both extreme cases. So when you look at laws of random probabilities and you average out how many genes are shared between siblings on average you would find that they share 25% /- 5% genetic material(depending on the population size). Which is opposed to the parent and the sibling in which the parent can share as little as 5-15% or as much as 95%. Genetic crossover is not just here is my 50% and here is my 50% it is Random and is almost never a straight 50/50 ratio. Well there is a lot more science behind it but we don't have all day to discuss it.
Thanks,
Randy
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www.AlphaDragonZ.com

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yes but why would you want to?
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my addiction:
2 normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
1 amelenistic corn snake (mazy)