Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok, I did scale counts on some goini's myself: A wildcaught male, a Len Krysko F1 female, a captive born patternless, and a captive born blotched. They all had 21 scale rows (like the easterns), so that doesn't tell me anything for the most part. BUT: The scales on ALL of my goinis have a rough feel to them compared to the smooth feel of easterns and floridas. Closer look reveals that all the scales on my goinis (from four totally different locations/lineages) have small depressions in them that can be seen by the naked eye when holding them up to a bright light. These small depressions are very slight, but enough to make the snake feel rough compared to an Eastern or Florida. Big difference in the way they feel when gliding through your hands/fingers. Never had any Easterns or Floridas with scales like that . . .If you have any goinis check and see for yourself. What do you think? Just my personal observation (without reading books). (Or has this already been mentioned before - if so, sorry, I was just trying to help)

Zee

Zee
I dont have any goini to make this observation with. So if you would be so kind as to box them up and ship them to me (Ill pay shipping of course), Ill try and validate this observation of yours!!
Brian
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RATS
2.0 Corn snakes "Warpath" & "Thunderbird" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

As soon as I get that FAT check you promised me . . .LOL!

Zee

HEY HEY no observations. Oh great its to late now I gotta get up and go look at my snakes. Thanks alot man. Geez some people just have no consideration for others....(Walking away mumbling to self. Hear noises of cages being moved. Hear someone say ouch footsteps approaching)... Ok no bumps or depressions on the scales but my female seems hungry. I gotta go wipe the blood from my hand. By the way both of mine come from private breeders and while they look pretty I have no idea of their lineage so you may be right and I just have crosses but I hope not. Oh and Zee I have a speckeled hatchling eastern that I am holding back that I want you to see.
Later Jason

Yeah! I wanna see that speckled - Nothing like an awesome,
hi-yellow speckled!!! Show me the pic please!
But anyway, thanks for checking and sorry for the extra pain in the assets I caused your animals!
Zee

Very interesting Zee. After I read your post, I realized that I remember feeling that same thing with the WC male I got from Len Krysko. But I never paid much attention to it. With that in mind, I'm going to check out my snakes and see if I notice any sort of difference with the Apalachicolas and the Easterns.

Thanks, Sean. The more folks check, the more we'll learn. After all I may be right, and I may not be right. But the only reason I posted at ALL is because what are the chances of four toatally different locality/captivity goini having the same trait (at least here in my house)? I figured it may be something to look into . . .maybe?
Here's my Len Krysko 03' female:

Zee

Zee,
Are the Goini with the dimpled scales large, older adults????
If so, that is very common with many kingsnakes and is detected individually.
Remember those huge alterna I showed you at my house? They had dimpled scales that felt rough....Some of my large Floridana have the same thing. The younger ones do not. Also.....not all of my larger snakes have this.
Just another observation I have made over the years.
John Lassiter

John,

I noticed the same dimpled scales on some of my Easterns. One is a large female that I believe is getting on the old side. I've never noticed a "rough" feel though when handling her. Either way, it's an interesting observation.

Yup...Just something I have noticed with some of the larger kings.
And I thought I was the only one.....LOL
John Lassiter
Pics coming soon of the Albino goini females and the het male.....

Yeah!!! let's see (pics) your new additions, John! I'm gonna have to come by and check them out in person next year!

Zee

HMMMM. . . Maybe the scales are dimpled in a different way/direction in goinis or they have thicker scales??? Because, SOMETHING IS making them feel a little rougher than any Eastern I've ever held (almost like a soft keeled snake in a way)

Zee

Thanks for pointing that out John, but my largest goini is only four foot long, the others are 3.5 foot, 3 foot, 2 foot, and a 05' hatchling I picked up in Daytona. None of my large 5' plus easterns, nor my large Brooksi have these type scales (yet?) not even old Big John who's over the hill 77" long, but has smooth scales too. But since you brought that up, I noticed ONE exception: Both of my young 03' pinellas county kings have similar scales as my goini and do feel rough. . .

Zee

I know I did....

BIOGEOGRAPHY AND PATTERN VARIATION OF KINGSNAKES, LAMPROPELTIS GETULA, IN THE APALACHICOLA REGION

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RATS
2.0 Corn snakes "Warpath" & "Thunderbird" (KY locale)
1.0 Black rat snake "Havok" (KY locale)
1.1 Black rat snakes "Reaper and Mystique" (MO locale)
1.0 Albino Black rat snake "Malakai" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Everglades rat snake "Deadpool" (Dwight Good stock)
0.1 Greenish rat snake "Rogue" (Dwight Good stock)
1.0 Great plains rat snake "Reign Fire" (TX locale)
1.0 Grey rat snake "Punisher" (White oak phase)(Dwight Good stock)

Good luck and Happy Herping
Brian

Since you've read this (I just read it again, thanks), unfortunately there is no mention of scale thickness/shape. The research paper DOES spend a LOT of time discussing the wide bands associated with most WC individuals, but scale shape may have been inadvertently omitted (are we all REALLY human???). Maybe the different scales (in goini) could also help camouflage the snake further by making it less shiny in sunny situations, since a lot of open, sandy environs were mentioned by Krysko/Means when these snake were isolated on that "giant" sandy, island.

Zee

N/m

I have Easterns that way also. I think its more of a humidity issue . Some get dry skin and I think the result is a dimpled or depressed scale. I have noticed though that some Eastern scales feel beaded while some feel smooth and glossy. All my NJ are that way with the beaded feeling yet my more southernly Easterns are smoother. I dont see anything with my naked eye its just a touch thing.

Keith
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