Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I know I'm probably asking a lot here, and if you couldn't tell I'm new at GTP's. I've been doing a lot of reading about them because I want to get one sometime, but I seriously can't tell the difference between one that costs $500 and one that costs $1100....I understand the localities like Biak and whatnot, I jsut don't get the difference between a yellow one or a red one and so on. Don't they all turn green at some point? (Unless you get a canary I understand that) I'm not looking for a designer morph or anything like that, just something simple in the 350-500 range. What would be the benifit of getting a red one verses a yellow one or visa versa? Any info would be appriciated.

From what I can see, there are a few things that determine price...
Locality
Bloodline

From what I've seen and been told, Biaks tend to be the cheapest of the pure bloodline locales cause they require the least amount of work, and they're aggressive tendencies make them hard sells. Others take a lot of hard work, or the amount of blue, yellow, ect in the parents/passed siblings raises the price. Red/yellow doesn't really effect anything...although you get a much more dramatic color change in a red neonate. The cheapest GTPs are imports of unknown origins...the best thing you can do is go with a breeder you can really trust. If you're interested in a locale that's typically mellow and have $550, I can reccomend somebody, or if you have more questions...just e-mail me: CMLReptiles@aol.com

Chris
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0.2.0 Grey Rats-Lauren, Avril
1.2.0 Black Rats- Robert, Cady, Kylie
1.2.0 Albino FL Kings-Nick, Jessica, Ashley
1.1.0 Crimson Corns-Kane, Ruby
0.1.0 Het-Crimson Corns-Lola
0.1.0 White-Sided/Pos Het Albino Black Rat-Lita
1.0.0 Albino White-sided Black Rat-Rey
0.1.0 Fl King-Bonnie
1.0.0 Biak GTP-Brandon
1.0.0 Flame X Blood Bearded-Ruff
1.2.0 Ball Pythons-Donnie, Gretchen, Alexis
0.1.0 Red-tail Boa-Xena
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor-Izzy

that basically sums it up,but i just wanna add,and i know im gonna get hammered for this.many people will tell you to stay away from wildcaught and imports.now for a beginner i agree,stay far away from wildcaught,but imports are not always wild caught.many imports are farmraised chondros that were born and received their first few meals in captivity before being shipped to the usa.now not as good as getting a captive born snake,but a far cry from a wildcaught animal.my first chondro was a farmraised bushmaster that turned out to be one of my favorite snakes ever.never refused a single meal and has some of the nicest colors i have ever seen on a basic locale animal.also bushmasters snakes are not of unknown origin.they sell all their snakes as certain locales and from what i have seen,are usually pretty on the money,as far as what they grow up to be.their snakes are pretty respected as you will see many of the top breeders,like signal herp,use these farm rasied in their own breeding stock.again,as a beginner its prob better and safer to start with a domestic but for the money farms cant be beat.they usually cost almost half of what a captive bred would cost of the same locale(right now bushmaster has them for 225).my advise is,if you have a decent amount of herp experience a healthy farmed animal is an ok way to go but if you are even a little unsure,then you have to go domestic captive bred,no doubt about it.im actually wating till october when they are expecting another shipment of their manakawaris.to see what these guys grow up to be you can go to signals homepage.i think they are the nicest of all signals non designer snakes.

Don't have much time to post here but I can tell that who you buy your chondro from matters a great deal as far as the animal thriving in your care. You should be able to find a nice cbb juvi for the amount you're willing to spend but the trick is to know who to buy from. Boas are much easier to buy since most will survive once given proper care. Chondros, on the other hand, may seem fine when you get them but perish a month or two latter when you did everything right. This leaves the new buyer blaming himself and thinking chondros are too difficult to keep when the real reason the animal died was because of inproper treatment of the animal by the seller/importer. Stay away from the larger classified website (kind of rhymes wth "shake and Bake" and check out the chondro web classifieds or the morelia viridis classifieds. The people selling on these sites are all reputable since the ppeople found here are so close knit and honest that they would crucify any outsider selling garbage on their sites. So much for a short post.----RON
P.S. Check out the chondroweb forum and morelia viridis forums as well. After a few days, you'll figure out who the regulars are. The regulars are all good guys many of which sell animals.

It is possible to get imports that are perfectly healthy and such, but for a beginner the best thing to do is to find a buyer who is interested in the long term relationship between you, the animal, and the themselves. When first starting, a breeder who will help you every step of the way is the key. The breeder I got my first chondro was local, so I was lucky enough where they came by and double checked my set-up, and made sure I had the habitat perfect before handing over the chondro, and I've had not a single problem.

Chris
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0.2.0 Grey Rats-Lauren, Avril
1.2.0 Black Rats- Robert, Cady, Kylie
1.2.0 Albino FL Kings-Nick, Jessica, Ashley
1.1.0 Crimson Corns-Kane, Ruby
0.1.0 Het-Crimson Corns-Lola
0.1.0 White-Sided/Pos Het Albino Black Rat-Lita
1.0.0 Albino White-sided Black Rat-Rey
0.1.0 Fl King-Bonnie
1.0.0 Biak GTP-Brandon
1.0.0 Flame X Blood Bearded-Ruff
1.2.0 Ball Pythons-Donnie, Gretchen, Alexis
0.1.0 Red-tail Boa-Xena
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor-Izzy

I'm not going to hammer anyone but I can not emphasize enough the importance of buying captive born and bred animals. Farm raised animals are a far cry from cbb. As Greg Maxwell's book points out, less than 50% of these animals survive. True they are captive hatched but that doesn't really mean that much and I'll tell you why: in many cases they sit for days and even weeks before being shipped to the U.S. which causes both dehydration and kidney damage which mwy not kill the animal for 1-2 months. Good luck tryng to get long term follow up from these people (and you will need it if you are a beginner). True, many good breeders have a few imports or farm raised animals in their collections but they also have medications on hand to treat the many medical problems which go along with imports and farm raised animals. Lastly, I will say that I have kept chondros since 1997 and bred them back in '01 so I have a little experience. I tried to save a couple of bucks a while back by buying a farm raised animal from someone who sells many animals through the KS classifieds. It ate each week without a problem but kept losing weight. A $65 trip to the vet and a stool sample later and I discovered that my animal was loaded with parasites. Even after a course of Panacur the animal perished anyway. Sure you may be in the 50% whose farm raised animal survives but if you're gonna do something do it right - buy cbb. You don't have to spend $1000. $400-$500 will buy you a perfect cbb animal with no scars, no parasites and good follow up care from a breeder who backs up his or her animals. You buy cheap, you get cheap. There are no shortcuts especially with chondros!

Excellent point. Even the breeder I buy from said that they have exp in imports, but even they have trouble with them. Also, like you said, you buy cheap you get cheap. A couple yrs ago at the tampa reptile exhibit I bought 2 red-tail boas and a blood python for $90 total...after a couple months I had 1 red-tail left, which luckily has survived. If that's the outcome with relatively low-end stuff, imagine spending a couple hundred $ on a chondro. This year I had the opp to buy 2 neonate GTPs for about $300, but there were no records and the deal seemed shady, so I opted to buy a pure Biak locale instead and it was one of the best things I could have done.

The other good thing about buying from breeders, is if you deal with the same breeder repeatedly, they eventually start giving you small deals here and there. Also, if they get to know and trust you, if you decide to breed it's somebody to help you get your name out and somebody who can vouch for you. buy all cheap from an importer, you're on your own.

Chris
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0.2.0 Grey Rats-Lauren, Avril
1.2.0 Black Rats- Robert, Cady, Kylie
1.2.0 Albino FL Kings-Nick, Jessica, Ashley
1.1.0 Crimson Corns-Kane, Ruby
0.1.0 Het-Crimson Corns-Lola
0.1.0 White-Sided/Pos Het Albino Black Rat-Lita
1.0.0 Albino White-sided Black Rat-Rey
0.1.0 Fl King-Bonnie
1.0.0 Biak GTP-Brandon
1.0.0 Flame X Blood Bearded-Ruff
1.2.0 Ball Pythons-Donnie, Gretchen, Alexis
0.1.0 Red-tail Boa-Xena
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor-Izzy

??????Who told you they all turn green?????

Well some Turn Green.

Some stay yellow for the most part.

Some turn blue!

Did i tell you some turn white?

Maybe you like Black and blue?

Ok, so you're more of an orange guy?

ok, ok, you like calico

How about Paradox?... Albino?.... Green and white? White and Yellow? Yellow and Green? Blue and Yellow? Green and Blue? Yellow and Black?

Point being... the first chondro would sell for around 500- 600 bucks... the others... Well, how deep are your pockets, again?

hope this helps.

LMAO...that post should be set aside for every other person asking this question....you cannot answer it better.

Chris
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0.2.0 Grey Rats-Lauren, Avril
1.2.0 Black Rats- Robert, Cady, Kylie
1.2.0 Albino FL Kings-Nick, Jessica, Ashley
1.1.0 Crimson Corns-Kane, Ruby
0.1.0 Het-Crimson Corns-Lola
0.1.0 White-Sided/Pos Het Albino Black Rat-Lita
1.0.0 Albino White-sided Black Rat-Rey
0.1.0 Fl King-Bonnie
1.0.0 Biak GTP-Brandon
1.0.0 Flame X Blood Bearded-Ruff
1.2.0 Ball Pythons-Donnie, Gretchen, Alexis
0.1.0 Red-tail Boa-Xena
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor-Izzy

yea like i said,i wouldnt go for a farm raised if you have no experience,but to say that 50 percent of farm raised chondros die may be pushing it a bit.you have to understand many people have an agenda and you cant believe everything you hear.i have no experience with any importers other than bushmaster.what i can say for them is they are totally professional,and i have not heard too many complaints about their animals or their facility in indonesia.if these animals were coming in sick or diseased,i dont think people like signal herp would put their animals or reputation at risk just to save a few bucks.also,if 50 percent of the animals they sold died,i believe they would go out of business rather quickly.the fact that i have a farmed import that survived and thrived doesnt tell me im lucky,it tells me i did the right thing raising him.a friend of mine worked for bushmaster usa and he gave me the scoop on all the animals that at least come out of that farm.the adults are cared for and treated just as any captive breeding pair in this country.the babies are fed a minimum of meals before being shipped and they arrive at the quarentine facility in healthy and happy shape.they are cared for,watered and fed while in quarintine just as any other captive bred neonate is.i was just making the statement that wildcaught imports and farmed imports are a far cry from each other.to think about it,i cant think of one thing the babies at bushmaster have to deal with that a domestic born neonate doesnt.these animals are shipped in individual containers,arrive overnight and begin being cared for in quarintine right away.many captive bred animals also have to go through shipping as well to arrive at their new owners.the idea that they are coming in dehydrated is also uninformed.a single chondo shipped one day,its its own container is not going to dehydrate it any more than shipping one delta dash from florida to ca.many breeders would have you believe that buying these animals you are getting something substandard,but if this were true,these breeders wouldnt be buying them themselves.the whole dehydrated,diseased myth comes from the wildcaught stock that have exchanged hands many times in many places of substandard living conditions before eventually getting to the dealer.this is so far from farmed animals its not funny.for me,to buy a basic locale id go with bushmaster.the thing with them is,you get amazing looking locale animals but nothing designer.if thats what youre looking for,only in america baby!.

what you are saying about Bushmaster is true... they are by far the best chondro importer in the US... however i do believe about 50% of imports do die... probably now very many from Bushmaster, but their are lots of brokers out their that are selling the imports before they have even done anything with them... most of the importers dont do a fecal or treat for mites or anything, they just ship... you can treat some of this stuff yourself if you know what your doing or know someone who does, but their are a few things that that your cant treat, such as lung worms... and even if you think you have got the snake nice and healthy if will normally take 2 years for it to die in the captivity environment, if you have missed something... i have talked to several breeders about this in the past and it seems that the average is 1 in 3 survive even after treatment... (excluding imports from Bushmaster)
i do have a few imports but most of my collection consists od CB... I have nothing against imports, but it should always be considered a risk
for a beginer... i dont think it to be wise to get anything other them CB their are plenty of nice affordabe CB out their and if all your looking for is a plain beautiful chondro then the price it usually very good... but if going with an import Bushmaster is probably the best path...

Shiloh
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Shiloh Hawkesworth
kansas
(Midwest Serpents)

Hey Icey. It's really unfair to imply that captive breeders have an agenda(in the negative sense that is). If their agenda is to convince new chondro keepers to buy captive bred animals rather than imports, then I fully support them. They are looking out for everyone in this situation, including the well being of chondros in captivity. From what I have heard first hand, many of these breeders spend alot of time helping out keepers that have not purchased a single animal from them. They help them even after they have gone against their advice, which the new keeper asked for, and then ignored. Put yourself in the breeders shoes...this is what you hear, "I would like your advice, although now that I hear it I don't want to take it, and when I go screw up, please help me fix it".

Instances of stress, dehydration, and renal failure that leads to kidney damage in imported chondros is NOT a myth!!!

Hope someone will back me up on all of this.

Just my .02,
Kevin

yup... the only agenda i have seen is the breeders trying to make sure people are getting snakes that will live more then 2 years...
it may come across as being sly, but a breeder is going to sell a very healthy snake that is going to most likely die of natural causes, not from lung worms or parasites...

its just eliminates alot of a risk...
kevin really covered the rest...

Shiloh
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Shiloh Hawkesworth
kansas
(Midwest Serpents)

I had a pretty long talk about buying wild caught and imported chondros with the breeder I buy from, and they said that even imports that are captive hatched and then imported are a big risk to the beginner. Chances are, if you spend $200-400 on an imported or wild caught chondro, you're gonna end up spending another $200 on vet bills in order to get it healthy...this is the case in most situations. You're better off just spending the $500 on a captive born and bred animal from a respected breeder.

Chris
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0.2.0 Grey Rats-Lauren, Avril
1.2.0 Black Rats- Robert, Cady, Kylie
1.2.0 Albino FL Kings-Nick, Jessica, Ashley
1.1.0 Crimson Corns-Kane, Ruby
0.1.0 Het-Crimson Corns-Lola
0.1.0 White-Sided/Pos Het Albino Black Rat-Lita
1.0.0 Albino White-sided Black Rat-Rey
0.1.0 Fl King-Bonnie
1.0.0 Biak GTP-Brandon
1.0.0 Flame X Blood Bearded-Ruff
1.2.0 Ball Pythons-Donnie, Gretchen, Alexis
0.1.0 Red-tail Boa-Xena
0.0.1 Savannah Monitor-Izzy