Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi Fellas.....I purchased a pair of Variable Kings that I know are for sure 100% but this guy was thrown in for $25 more. He was labeled as Het. for Leonis. Obviously that isn't what he is. Anyone care to take a stab at it? I know these guys can be Variable....lol

My guess would be that its an Alterna x Thayeri. Looks kind of like this one.

Na.....look at the speckling...especially the orange in it....
Looks like some of my buckskin milksnake phases that I produced over the last 4 years or so......
I don't think it's a cross, but I have been wrong once....only once.....LOL
John Lassiter

I agree with Chris - if its a hybrid its probably alterna x thayeri. Who did you get them from?

Why do you guys think that is a hybrid????
Just curious......
John Lassiter

Only because of the "het for leonis" thing. But I suppose that someone that confused with their terminology could have mean something else. Maybe its "het for reduced black" also!

Thayeri aren't het for anything......Even the melanistic phased ones aren't figured out completely to call the normal looking offspring from one as a het.....but I think we all knew that already.....LOL
Yeah...I am leary too of the "het for leonis" title this one had on it, but I think the person who sold it just did not know what he had. Not a lot of people know about thayeri like us on this forum.
I still think it is a normal ole buckskin milksnake phase thayeri......Not crossed with anything. The curved bands near the ventral scales and the specks of orange on the head gives it away.
If it were a Ruthveni cross the bands would be more square towards the vent and the head would not be as pronounced as in thayeri.....
Just my two cents,
John Lassiter

I'd almost have to agree with John at quick glance, very difficult to say one way or another looking at pics. I've seen a lot of first generation alterna x thayeri hybrids, a very large herpeticulture operation near me crosses them and all 50/50 hybrids that I have seen have the distinct alterna gray ground color. Your animal has a very classic dirty or speckled buckskin/yellow ground color. If there is alterna in there it is minimal, but possible... it happens. There are hints of something besides thayeri going on there but impossible to put a finger on. The one thing that really makes me wonder is the dirt cheap price, that signals the seller was desperate for some reason to sell the snake. But then again, the seller just may be real nice and gave you a bonus. I would politely ask them about it if you really are concerned and see what response you get. lol... the "het for leonis" thing kinda bugs me too.

The only way to be sure you are putting your money into pure animals is to pay the price and buy from known reputable breeders that can, and will gladly attest to the validity of their breeder animals.

But then, I am just a crusty 'ol stick-in-the-mud purist.

Good lookin' snake though...

Mike

There was a post on my collection thread identifying another Thayeri I bought from this lady along with this male. The snake was identified as having come from someone's collection that was sold off. I imagine I could call him and see if this animal came from him as well. I honestly think this lady just wanted to get rid of him and it was a reverse trio. After seeing a few photos of some Milksnake bucksin animals I would have to lean that route. I appreciate all the posts!!!!