Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I was hand feeding a Jump-Start gel by ESU, with drops of water here and there, and my sick horned lizard went cold, her arms and legs went behind her body, and she turned extremely dark, almost black. I thought she just dropped down another level of her illness, but she obviously wasn't breathing and I could feel nothing, but bone.

I very quickly reacted doing something - opened her mouth, and tapped for some reason. Put some drops of water from the running tap in her mouth. She turned back on, like a light switch or something. Not healthy, but not dark and cold like she suddenly turned to for about 2 sec.
Has this happened to anybody before? If you don't believe me, if I had it on video tape you definitely would.
The lizard is better than yesterday, but still very ill.

to bizarre not to believe it, but what specie is this, is it wild caught? Why were you feeding her these drops? Do you have the temps up to 105 on one side of the cage and at leasst 85 on the other. If she is sick, it is recommended to keep the temps up - I have seen this coloration in dead horned lizards but not in a live one> what are it's symptoms that make for sure you know it's sick? Will it oprn it's mouth without being forced open? IS it too weak to take an insect by itself? What are you feeding it for food? Let us know.....
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

Hi- Yes to weak to eat a insect by herself I guess, but will dig under the sand. Heating was a issue in the recent pass, because my heater broke. Maybe bad temperature hit the cage. Now she is in her own cage with -put temperatures a little warmer-. She won’t open her mouth willing, except the occasions when she appears to be in shock (happened about twice). I fed her ESU’s JUMP-Start gel. Now I am feeding her a similar product by Flukker's. She swallows the baby type food and water OK. I believe she is a Phrynosoama platyrhinos calidiarum.

I'm not sure how to help you, but too much water force fed might also be detremntal, also if you are getting her to open her mouth, why don't you take a cricket and pull the legs off and see if she'll eat that. All this handling I'm sure is stressing her out. I am not sure what you mean by a heater, are you talking about an under the tank heater or a basking bulb? Have you went to our site and read all the information on horned lizard husbandry, as well as the type of equipment one uses to keep them healthy? at this point because she sounds gravely ill, I am certianly concerned for her. Do you have a dome light over the top of her cage? Can you take a picture of her? It would help us to acess her condition, but what your describing sounds pretty serious. IF she can bury herself, perhaps with corect temps and a littel coaxing she might eat a cricket or mealworm, but you'll have to pull the legs off. Another trick I do is take a long broom straw and stick a de-legged cricket on the end and move it around in front of them or slowly bring it too their face, if the cricket moves it's legs around the lizard will usually induce a feeding response and try and eat. I don't know how to help you further without seeing a picture and having more to go on. Be carefull because you could give the lizard water or food that goes down the wrong pipe when force feeding and ends being a respritory problem, which she already sounds like she has something like this.....
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

Yes I am familiar with the web site and it is very useful. It was my house heater that was broken and it was freezing cold for about a week (WA state). I think the cage heating, (use UV heat light in day, heat pad at night) may not have been able to compete with the cold nights. I wish I had a digital min/max thermometer setup. I don’t think the lizard buried herself last night. I’m going to work with her again today and will make sure not to give too much water. Thanks for the advice. - george

If your lizard is to sick to eat why havn't you taken it to the vet yet? Optimal husbandry is needed, as suggested by the previous posts, but veterinary intervention is key.

Ian

The vet treated for 'a flagella' parasite found from a stool sample.
Does anybody know what that is?
And put fluids or something in through a needle or something.
The vet said probablly won't live and charged a fortune.

A fortune is probably an opinion and not every pet owner's perspective. From what you described the vet did, it doesn't sound like it cost to much.

Parasites are often classified but not specified, especially in herps and other exotics. There are a million times more species of invertebrates than vertebrates. A flagellate is probably describing a protozoa, and may be giardia spp.

The fluids would've been an electrolyte solution adjusted to the chemestry of reptiles (reptile ringer's recipe)and will do a lot for pulling the odds in your reptile's favour.

Other diagnostic and supportive treatments are available, but again, add to the cost. Blood work, X-rays, biopsies, cultures, ultrasound ect... are all available at most vet clinics. An IV or IOs catheter could have been placed if the vet thought it would improve the chances, and it also comes down to how hard you want to push treatment.

Ian