Reptile & Amphibian Forums

hey guys...i've posted here about my bloods before, but this time i'm posting for some leopard geckos that I purchased off of kingsnake. so i bought three leopard geckos @ $40 each and paid $60 for shipping. the guys terms were that he covered the animals unless it was the carriers error/delay. he told me that he would give me what i paid for shipping back (but thats it). He sent the package overnight shipping thursday night and it was suppose to come friday morning. the package arrived to the fed ex by my house on saterday morning so i went to pick it up because i had a feeling they weren't going to ship it (which the lady in front confirmed that they weren't going to ship it until monday). So it was suppose to be at my mouse friday morning and i got it on saterday morning. the box had absolutly no holes in it, and all sides of the box are covered in square peices of styrfoam (all sides all around top and bottom). so there is practically no breathing room in the box. the guy put all three leopard geckos in a very small 5 inch plastic container with only one hole in it. all three leopard geckos were dead...one's tail had broken off during the trip (nipped because he put them together). part of their belly was green (im guessing lack of air). i already said the small box was sealed tight with no air holes and surrounded by square peices of styrfoam. the ice pack was a little zip lock bag with water in it. is there anything that i could do/ should do about this? Maybe if the box had more holes and he put each gecko in its own container with more than one hole in it i would be able to let this go. @ $40 a lizard that is $120 that im loosing. i didnt want to post in the leopard gecko forum because ive seen him post there before. i took pictures of everything......kept all the shipping stuff.....and froze the leopard geckos....please let me know what you think

i bought it off his add from king snake.....i didn't know he had a website which had stuff available and terms until after...dumb me....let me know

Hey,
I would definately make a case for your self regarding the poor handling on his part, when packaging for a trip. The over crowding in the holeless box, definately played a major role in causing the death and demise of the 3 geckos. I would bring that up with the guy and point fingers where possible, if he is not willing to make restitution for his ineptness and poor lack of judgement when shipping over night. He should know better than that if he purports that he has experience and fancies himself a reputable breeder slash seller. JM2C!
-Angel
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In life you can fall many times, but you're only a failure, if you don't try to get back up!
Evil Canevil

A slightly different perspective, from an unbiased party.
For starters, the insulated box you described is pretty much the standard - all adding holes to it would do is decrease the insulating properties by letting outside air in.
That does not, however excuse poor packaging. The geckos should have been individually packed in properly ventilated deli cups. And a ziplock bag with ice (water) as a cool pack is just sad.
No one will cover problems caused by carrier delays - because the carrier won't cover them. This is spelled out clearly in the waiver (live animal contract) that the shipper signs with the carrier. What you should do is verify that it was in fact shipped overnight and when it was entered into the system. If he made up the shipping label, but didn't drop it off by the deadline - it's his fault the package was delayed. That said - you have now learned why most of us do not like to ship for Friday delivery - if there is a delay, you're screwed. At least you were able to get the package.
Check into the shipping issues - that, and the sub par packaging are pretty much your only ammunition here. Since you have now seen this person's TERMS, is there a temperature restriction on the live arrival? Did you notify this person of the DOAs immediately?

i notified him about the animals as soon as i got back from fed ex...i sent him pictures of the dead lizards....i wish he would have linked his add on kingsnake to his website.....i didnt know about the website until after...i guess i learned a lesson.....here are the terms....if you find anything then let me know..thanks for looking

Animal Guarantees: All animals sold are correctly sexed and of correct
weights stated. All animals are feeding and are in top health. Live arrival
is guaranteed if signed for on first delivery attempt void otherwise and
for 24 hours after arrival. I will not be held responsible for carrier error or
delays. Live arrival is guaranteed unless temperatures at any stops on
route to the destination are below 40 degrees or above 80 degrees. A
refund or credit will be issued on a case by case basis and I reserve the
right to make that decision. All DOA's must be reported by email or phone
within 2 hours of receipt and the actual animal involved must be available
for my viewing if requested. No returns on live animals will be granted
Animals that are being held for payment(layaway) and animals that are
being held for shipping are guaranteed to receive the same care as my
personal collection! NO RETURNS ON LIVE ANIMALS!!!

I think the real question will come down to if he dropped the animals off in time for overnight delivery. If the carrier screwed up (I really hate FedEx btw) then he is obviously not liable due to his terms. If he didn't drop them off in time and thats why they weren't delievered then he should be liable. I usually wake up early when I have a shipment to monitor the shipping and meet the delivery guy at his truck when he drives up. So personally I would have been calling FedEx at 10:01 am that day if they hadn't showed up yet.
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"It's my snake, I trained it, so I'm going to eat it!" - Mad Max, The Road Warrior

Like I said, go back to the tracking info and find out when the package was signed in. Given that his terms list a high temp of 80 degrees for the guarantee, you may be out of luck anyway (depending on where he is, and where it had to go to get to you). Still, I would press the packaging issues - all in one deli cup, cup not ventilated properly, sorry excuse for a cool pack. He cut alot of corners, and it certainly wasn't to the geckoes benefit.