Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This interesting topic came up on another forum and I thought I'd bring it up here....

see: http://www.b2g2.com/boards/board.cgi?action=read&id=1125439062&user=kyherpsoc

What do you think?
Is freezing painful?

I have often wondered if over the counter barbituates (given in human dosages)...like sleep-aid, etc. would be more humane in just causing sleep and the heart to stop.

Thoughts?

Has anybody considered Ether?? It was used a long, long, long time ago in human surgries to put patients to sleep. Some bug collectors use it to euthanise their specimans, so why not other animals. Just put them in a sealed container with a cloth soaked in the stuff. They just go to sleep, and pass on. (Make sure they have truely passed on, or they will wake up!)

Note..I am not in agreement with killing an animal for convenience. There are ALWAYS people to take in unwanted animals, it just might take a lot of time and effort to find them. Many unwanted/injured animals have turned into great pets (I use the term loosely), and have gone on to have quality lives. They just need to be given a chance with the right person.
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Jenea

1:3 Eastern Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

I am also opposited to convenience euthanasia.
We actually have an adoption agency within the herp society I'm an officer in.

I'm of course speaking of things such as crypto...and other conditions that are uncurable by all reasonable measures.

Check this link.

Paul Hollander
British Veterinary Zoological Society guidelines on reptile euthanasia

Good link...good info, but i wish there was an explaination as to why the freezing method was unacceptable.

I don't see freezing as unacceptable if done right. The snake should be placed in the refrigerator/cooler first till it has gone to sleep. Estivation occurs in the low 50's. About a half hour seems to work fine.

Then it is moved to the freezer. As it is unconscious before subjected to lethal temps IMO I do not believe it is painful.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

As I understand it, freezing is not recommended because the formation of ice crystals in each cell is painful.

Actual freezing is not necessary, though. A good refrigerator can drop temperatures to around 40 F, and that can kill in 24 hours if the snake is not hardened to low temperatures.

Paul Hollander

Paul, Could not say for sure (not being a freezing snake) but what I have read about people once the body has gone past a certain point it become numb. Once unconscious the likely hood of pain is very slight. That is why we become so when stressed. it is natures's safety valve against pain.

I think what you said really applies more to fast freezing rather than gradual.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I don't think a refridgerator would kill a northern snake, it may take a few months, or a few days for a tropical snake. I agree, that they would be dead in the freezer, before actually freezing. See, Frank, I don't always contradict you. Personally I am against killing sick snakes, even if it is considered uncurable, you can at least try, and who knows you might learn something that will save him, or the next one. As far as there pain is concerned, unlike people, most animals value life above comfort, that's why animal suicides are unheard of. Whales, and chameleons excluded, they tend to kill themselves out of confusion rather then purpose.

Actually the average death time in a refrigerator is about a half hour based on the animals I have euthanised. Not proud to say that, but when you do animal rescue-unfortuately the necessity comes up often.

This is based on a frige temp of 38-40*F.

Of course ther is the alcohol method but I think it is very painful before they get too drunk to care.

Frank
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"The luxury of not getting involved departed with the last lifeboat Skipper..."

I agree with Frank. It sort of ...um... bothers me, but I do. LOL

np
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
1-1-0 Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-1-0 Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids