Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I have posted several times about my male leo not doing well. Had him for 3 months. In quarntine for 2 months. 2 Fecals have come back negative and physical exam showed nothing. But he is SO thin...his tail is no wider than the base of his tail. He has stopped eating about a week ago. I have been syringer feeding him Hills A/D 2x a day about 0.7cc (or 0.7mL) and some water. He takes it willingly licking it off his lips. Well I guess he grabbed one of the crickets in the cage 2 nights ago and this morning I had a fecal that contained an UNDIGESTED CRICKET! The whole thing, legs and all. Dead but still very much in its original form. The vet suggests blood work and xrays totalling $200 but I just lost my job (literally today is my first day unemployed) and I have a hard time spending more when I have spent $80 already. Any help or suggestions would be apprecaited. Thanks
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Jessica

0.1.0 Sharpei-Husky mix...all attitude
0.0.1 Ball Python
2.2.0 Corn Snakes
1.1.0 Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Blotched Tiger Salamander
...and a saltwater tank!

Did your vet do a fecal flotation or a fecal smear? The most common is a flotation, but some parasites (like giardia) are easier to pick out in smears.

Keep the warm side of his cage in the 90s. This will help keep up his immune system and possibly stimulate his appetite.

Make sure he's well hydrated. You don't need to do soaks, but just keep him in a well-constructed humid hide and leave a bowl of water.

Does he have any appetite at all? Syringe-feeding isn't meant to be done long-term and reptiles can still go downhill pretty quickly if that's all they have for food. You want him back on food that's more natural to him (insects) as soon as possible.

Good luck.
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chickabowwow

The vet did a fecal float and smear. When I found out there were different types I called to confirm. The warm side is 92 and the cool side 82. He has a moist hide (paper towels) and a water bowl. He stopped eating on his own last Monday and since then ate 2 crickets on his own - one of which came out whole in the fecal. He has a bowl of mealies and waxworms but won't touch them. He has been this thin for 3 months but had been eating about 15 crickets a week...still not as much as he should be eating the same. He has taken well to the syringe feeding but will not eat anything else on his own. Still has some energy but walks sometimes with his head tilted down (as a dog would sniff the ground) and occasionally shakes as he walks - like a little tremor. I don't know what else I can do but any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

>>Did your vet do a fecal flotation or a fecal smear? The most common is a flotation, but some parasites (like giardia) are easier to pick out in smears.
>>
>>Keep the warm side of his cage in the 90s. This will help keep up his immune system and possibly stimulate his appetite.
>>
>>Make sure he's well hydrated. You don't need to do soaks, but just keep him in a well-constructed humid hide and leave a bowl of water.
>>
>>Does he have any appetite at all? Syringe-feeding isn't meant to be done long-term and reptiles can still go downhill pretty quickly if that's all they have for food. You want him back on food that's more natural to him (insects) as soon as possible.
>>
>>Good luck.
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>>www.BugChick.com
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>>chickabowwow
>>
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Jessica

0.1.0 Sharpei-Husky mix...all attitude
0.0.1 Ball Python
2.2.0 Corn Snakes
1.1.0 Leopard Gecko
1.0.0 Blotched Tiger Salamander
...and a saltwater tank!

How fresh were the fecal samples when you submitted them? Some protozoans can dry out in just a matter of hours since gecko poop is so small.

It sounds like he's got a heavy parasitic infection. It could be protozoans that suction themselves to the intestinal lining. They don't do any damage per se, but when they're in high numbers, they basically clog up the intestinal lining from being able to absorb any nutrients or fat. He could also have some type of worm. There are different kinds, but they generally attach themselves to the intestinal lining using vampire-type teeth. These do more damage because they also burrow into the tissue while feeding, so not only can they cause intestinal scarring (which also interferes with nutrient absorption) but they also suck away the actual nutritients your leo should have gotten from its food. And then on top of all the direct damage, your leo may also be sick from having to deal with all the excrement and waste products that the parasites produce inside his body.

Your leo could have something else altogether, but it still sounds like parasites to me. I think you should get another fecal test or two done. It's very possible for him to have any of these parasites without having anything show up in fecal tests because the parasites don't always shed eggs (or dead bodies) in every poop.

Another recommendation is to try using a feeder like roaches since they work better than crickets when it comes to putting weight on skinny geckos.

At any rate, it sounds like he's trying to survive, so I hope you're able to figure out what's wrong with him.
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chickabowwow

agreed that the fecals might not be catching some unknown parasite. but i disagree on having more fecals done, if you're worried about money. since you are, skip right to administering de-wormer (via your vet). it would probably be cheaper, and it wouldn't hurt your leo, and more time-efficient, since time is of the essence here.

i worry about bacterial and fungal infections (the former is what got my first leopard gecko, jeeves, and i was not fast enough- she gave me about 2 weeks of warning). if it were my leo, i'd insist the vet put it on both anti-parasite and anti-biotics imediately (like, tomorrow morning), assuming there were no negative interactions between the meds (actually, i'm pretty sure there aren't, as i had a leo on both briefly). then see if you can get together the mun-mun for the bloodwork.

the nice thing about those is that you often get extra medicine, some of which keeps well in the fridge, lest something come up later.
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marla
currently: 0.0.8 cory catfish, {lost count} hermit crabs (assorted exotic species), 3.8.5 leopard geckoes, 0.0.7 korean fire-bellied toads, 0.0.4 strawberry hermit crabs, and 0.2.0 sugar gliders

I'm not sure that's a good idea. Dewormers are only effective against some types of worms. And I wouldn't try to shotgun with other medications like Flagyl or Albon, which could be what's required here.
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chickabowwow

i would actually cool down his cool side. i know that sounds weird, but accelerating his metabolism that much when he's not eating properly sounds like a bad idea to me.

you could also try taking him outside, in the sunlight, 15 minutes a day, UV is an appetite stimulant. when my girl binky was having problems, giving her a vitamin B injection helped (at the vet). but those are things that will just address the symptom, without discovering and treating the root of the problem, and will not prevent him from wasting away.

seriously, i think the blood work and antibiotics are in order post-haste. you will feel good about it later, trust me.
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marla
currently: 0.0.8 cory catfish, {lost count} hermit crabs (assorted exotic species), 3.8.5 leopard geckoes, 0.0.7 korean fire-bellied toads, 0.0.4 strawberry hermit crabs, and 0.2.0 sugar gliders

I think it's better to NOT cool the temps because that's going to have a drastic effect on his immune system. If you're going to pump him full of antibiotics, warm temps become even more crucial.

Take for example Albon which is used to treat coccidia. This drug doesn't actually kill the coccidia (no drug does), but it stops coccidia from multiplying. Then it's up to the host's immune system to catch up and get control of the infection.

But let's say that some of the other antibiotics are effective against the other parasites. Now his body has a bunch of decaying dead parasite bodies. That means he's got a lot of toxins inside that his body has to fight off. Again, he needs his immune system to do that.

The third reason not to cool the temperatures is that it's going to curb his appetite even more. Slowing down his metabolism isn't going to help much because he needs food to boost his immune system and to just get better.

But lastly, I've dealt with many parasitized animals (especially leopard geckos), and if you do offer them the choice of a warm side even up to the high 90s, they will use it. Offering them a choice of temperatures is the key. They intuitively know what to do for themselves.
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chickabowwow

my suggestion would be to pay for what the vet says- it sounds like he does not have much time left unless you correct the problem soon. $200 is not that much for a vet bill for a reptile. if you are hoping for a quicker solution, i would ask the vet if you could try some antibiotics first, but those aren't free either, and might be wasting precious time. though i understand how heinous it is to be in a bit of a financial bind, i advise doing it anyway, and right away, or you will regret it bitterly later.

if your'e certain he's male, and you've seen him defecate, i would leave the x-rays until last, since he's not impacted or egg bound. go for blood work and possibly antibiotics right away.

uh, i guess part of my point is that it's impossible for us forum folk to really help you. you need a veterinarian who can work hands-on with him. but the hand-feeding is a good step. it just can't last for very long if there is another problem.
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marla
currently: 0.0.8 cory catfish, {lost count} hermit crabs (assorted exotic species), 3.8.5 leopard geckoes, 0.0.7 korean fire-bellied toads, 0.0.4 strawberry hermit crabs, and 0.2.0 sugar gliders

I agree with most of the above, all in all good advice.

Use your veterinarian. Remember he/she is a friend, not foe, so discuss your financial options and make it clear you really want to do what's best for your gecko. They will prioritize any diagnostics they do and come up with a game plan that will only see your money spent if it's absolutely necessary. Depending on the clinic's policies a payment plan (or you can apply for medi-card or an extension of a credit card) may be available.

Parasites may be a problem, but they alone arn't an emergency. The undigested cricket isn't great, but is not an emergency.

The droopy head and tremors are an emergency and need to be dealt with first.

Good luck with your leo, he's in good hands to have such a concerned owner.

Ian