Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This is one of my copperheads in a bin for routine cage cleaning. I thought I'd post a few pics to find out which subspecies my animals are

Hope you guys and gals can help me out

Thanks,
Peter

Cool forum!, Ya gotta understand dutch though...

Here a close -up of the tail region

Belgian / Dutch forum

My other specimen.

Diffrent subspecies?

last picture, detail:

Hope someone can be of any help

Bye,
Peter

.

How can you ID it as pictigaster from dorsal photographs? The coloration and dark margins on the crossbands could definitely be pictigaster but I've seen laticinctus and intergrades that don't look any different. I thought the dark pigmentation and U-shaped triads on the ventral side were the tell tale sign.
I don't dispute your opinion, I'm just looking to learn. It could definitely be pictigaster but I'm just wondering if there is a way to tell without seeing a belly shot.
Thanks,
Chris

First, I agree, those are most likely pictigaster, although, they could have a touch of laticinctus, only a locality could tell.
Second, a rather distinguishing feature that could define them is the bright, inverted U shapes that are present along the ventrolateral surface, along the lateral dorsal/ventral interface. These are within the broad crossbands. Whether or not they are from eastern or western localities, is arguable, but, there are no true or full triads within the crossbands above the inverted U's, suggesting that they may be of eastern origin, according to Conant and Gloyd.
Another way to tell easily is by working w/pictigaster for a few years. Could yo post a pic of the area I described?
creep

I'll try to get both belly's shot for further ID work, Thanks so far everyone

Peter

They look like broad banded copperheads (Agkistrodon contortrix laticinctus). What do their venters look like? If they're underside is mostly cream color with little pattern it is most likely laticinctus. If the venter is heavily pigmented w/ distinct mottling it may be a trans pecos copperhead (pictigaster) or an intergrade between the two. Without specific locality information it's kind of difficult to say whether it's pure laticinctus or not.

By the way, nice snakes! I like that little pattern aberrancy on the second one.
Chris

>>They look like broad banded copperheads (Agkistrodon contortrix laticinctus). What do their venters look like? If they're underside is mostly cream color with little pattern it is most likely laticinctus. If the venter is heavily pigmented w/ distinct mottling it may be a trans pecos copperhead (pictigaster) or an intergrade between the two. Without specific locality information it's kind of difficult to say whether it's pure laticinctus or not.
>>
>>By the way, nice snakes! I like that little pattern aberrancy on the second one.
>> Chris

Yes. They are awesome. You have a nice pair of Copperheads. I can't tell the difference between Tran Pecos or BB. They are nice looking and hefty looking BB's. I like the size of them. My BB copperhead is smaller than yours. How many inches is yours?

http://www.dotphoto.com/go.asp?l=longtang&AID=830686 is where you can see pictures of mine.

cheers.
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Longtang. I like snakes and rats.

seeing the belly but it looks like a typical OK or Kansas BBand cross (I have an animal identical to that) as well as the second animal being 100% transpecos, and a nice one at that. If its a female, I would be happy to take her off your hands to go in my group you dont get many like that anymore. Well good luck with both, I am expecting babies from my male transpecos and female bband cross that look almost identical to those. Good luck, there the best coppers in my book,

Jared

seeing the belly but it looks like a typical OK or Kansas BBand cross (I have an animal identical to that) as well as the second animal being 100% transpecos, and a nice one at that. If its a female, I would be happy to take her off your hands to go in my group you dont get many like that anymore. Well good luck with both, I am expecting babies from my male transpecos and female bband cross that look almost identical to those. Good luck, there the best coppers in my book,

It is a female, the animals are both enormous (that's why I'm lloking for males

Sorry, but I won't sell or trade them, I love them both dearly (as far as that goes with a hot snake )

Not to mention the fact that I'm from Holland in Europe, quite expensive, sending one 20 $ copper overseas

Pecos tend to be a touch more expensive than $20. I think for that nice pureblood (second pic) asking a 100 would be fair. Since there is NO ONE producing CB pecos offspring. Nice animals either way.

Jared