Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey everybody ive been doing some research and been looking more into Venemous and I feel confident now that I can begin looking for my new snake, Im looking into either a Gaboon, Rhino, or a puff. I understand that with all three of these, they rarely miss and their venom can do extreme damage, however that is why you just don't risk taking the bite. I was wondering if anyone here can point me in the right direction of a breeder with experience with all three snakes, and if anyone knows where I can get any of them? Id just rather deal with people that know what there doing when it comes to this.

and for all you Gabby lovers, she is massive.
http://zoltantakacs.com/zt/er/snake/album.php

Thanks
Pat
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Pat
1.1 (100% het albino) Retics
1.1 Coastal Carpet Pythons

Any responsible person on this forum would be remiss to recommend a venomous snake w/out knowing some very important information such as:

1) AGE: if you are a minor, the conversation ends here; stick with non venomous species; there are 100's of amazing non venomous species to choose from; too many folks are in a hurry to keep a venomous species when non venomous are just as wonderful to work with w/out the risks.

2) EXPERIENCE: the three you listed are NOT considered good first time venomous species and it has nothing to do with the ease in which they can be managed. It is simply due to their high level of danger.

3) RESOURCES: do you own your own home? If not, you shouldn't keep venomous. Venomous reptiles don't belong in apartment buildings, townhomes, etc....not fair to the general public to be exposed to that sort of risk. If you share your living quarters with other family members or friends, once again, you shouldn't keep them unless they have experience with venomous herps.

4) LIFE RISKS: people who drink a lot, do drugs, etc have no business keeping venomous species.

These all seem very rudimentary but as I said, any responsible venomous keeper would be irresponsible to recommend one of the three you asked about as a first "hot". Get some experience first, ask questions, read, read, read, talk to venomous keepers, and make sure this is something you want to pursue. Once you meet a certain level of criteria, I would recommend starting off with something like a pygmy rattler, banded rock rattler, copperhead, etc....you may get real sick, but most likely, you won't die from a bite from one of these (but still always that possibility).

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>Hey everybody ive been doing some research and been looking more into Venemous and I feel confident now that I can begin looking for my new snake, Im looking into either a Gaboon, Rhino, or a puff. I understand that with all three of these, they rarely miss and their venom can do extreme damage, however that is why you just don't risk taking the bite. I was wondering if anyone here can point me in the right direction of a breeder with experience with all three snakes, and if anyone knows where I can get any of them? Id just rather deal with people that know what there doing when it comes to this.
>>
>>and for all you Gabby lovers, she is massive.
>>http://zoltantakacs.com/zt/er/snake/album.php
>>
>>Thanks
>>Pat
>>-----
>>Pat
>>1.1 (100% het albino) Retics
>>1.1 Coastal Carpet Pythons
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

No matter what any in here says to him, many of the dealers out there will sell a hot to him, regardless of what his experience may be. We have a persons well being in mind, when most vendors have dollar signs in their eyes. I'd even venture a guess that says that a vendor has already contacted him just by reading his post. I have yet to buy a venomous snake where a dealer asked me where I was from, what my experience is, or whether or not I have or need a permit. It's sad. I just hope he does the right thing and doesn't get in over his head.

I'm looking at getting some hots over the next couple of months, and have spoken to a number of breeders. You'd be surprised how many are actually willing to ask the right questions. Many enquire as to age and experience, and offer advice as to the right way to go about things. (Whether that advice is 'correct' or not is another question, not relevant here)

That said, I have spoken to a number of dealers that are quite willing to say anything to get a sale. You can pick em a mile away. My advice (for what it's worth), is to stay away from those that don't seem genuinely concerned about the whole situation and the events to follow.

To some, that next call from a newbie is nothing more than potential $$$. For the newbie, that call is potentially life threatening.

It may be like that in Australia, but it sure isn't like that in the US (go to a Hamburg show and you'll see first hand). This of course is only going by the 100 or so times I've spoken with dealers and never once had one ask me anything. In fact, I would show them my permit when I was buying anything venomous, even though they didn't ask for it. This way they could have it on their records that it was sold to someone who required a license for purchase.

Absolutely frightening isn't it? And we wonder why our rights are being taken away; we only have ourselves to blame.

>>It may be like that in Australia, but it sure isn't like that in the US (go to a Hamburg show and you'll see first hand). This of course is only going by the 100 or so times I've spoken with dealers and never once had one ask me anything. In fact, I would show them my permit when I was buying anything venomous, even though they didn't ask for it. This way they could have it on their records that it was sold to someone who required a license for purchase.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Regarding irresponsible vendors and the licencing system -

Then again, i've only spoken to about 10 different breeders of various elapids. Most have asked about 'my record', but perhaps i'm either just in the right crowd or, by chance, have asked the right people. Lots of people will recommend lots of different paths to go down. Some recommend some snakes, some recommend others. The difference is, some recommend different snakes just to get a sale (different to 'the norm', i mean). And some recommend the other snakes out of genuine belief that they are appropriate (and they very well may be correct. After all, what is the 'right' way to begin this?).

Regarding permits, I understand our permit system to be pretty strict. A seller records a sale of a ven, and the licence number of the buyer. A buyer records the purchase and the licence number of the seller. This is sent in to the Department of Sustainability and Environment annually via a 'return for wildlife' slip, and anything that doesn't match up gets checked out... it's simple maths This is the same for vens and non-vens, but with vens, the DSE have to be notified within 2 weeks that there has been a purchase. The only way to get around this system, that i see, is to breed, and record extra births, and grab those extra ones from the wild (we're not allowed WC here). Or, to record less than are born, and sell some off the books.

I think we have a pretty 'closed' network of hot-keepers here in Vic. For example, shops aren't allowed to sell hots. And we don't have expos in Vic - and even if we did, i doubt hots would be allowed to be sold. So, the only way to get a hot is to meet the breeders. Everybody seems to know everybody, and those that have gained bad reputations are known for it (and viceversa). I guess that this is a pretty good way of protecting newbies.

That said, as for the 'protection of newbies', i don't necessarily think that all newbies need protecting. Those that wanna go about this the right way, do their research, get some hands on experience, etc, obviously don't need a whole lot of protecting. It is the guys (or gals) that want a taipan or eastern brown snake as their first that are gonna get whacked.

And, to the original poster of the thread -

I might be wrong (i'm in australia with limitted knowledge of american vens), but from what i can gather, a gabby is considered somewhat extremely fast, highly toxic, and commonly aggressive. Yes, their reputation is known globally. They can't be tailed easily from what i've read, being able to virtually bite at any angle (including perfectly vertical), and only experienced keepers can tail and hook safely. To the original poster, I would recommend reading this article on gabbies from the snakegetters website article.

Whilst i'm not a minor, i do live with one parent. I will be teaching that parent all that i am taught in this whole process. Afterall, if i get tagged, it will be him who is going to have to call an ambulance, apply a pressure bandage, mobilise the limb, and catch the hot and put it away. It may also be him who has to administer adrenalin.

IMO, you're not ready for a hot until all those who live with the hot are ready. If you get tagged, you're not gonna be able to instruct them on what to do for too long.

That's supposed to say 'immobilise the limb' in the second last paragraph. Cheers.
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Happy Herping

If you get tagged (and there's not excuse for that happening if you do things properly), it is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO MAKE SURE THAT SNAKE GETS PUT BACK INTO ITS CAGE AND PROPERLY SECURED. Do not expect a panic stricken father to have to do that; its bad enough that you may die but he doesn't need to die for the sake of your interests. Just something to consider.

>>That's supposed to say 'immobilise the limb' in the second last paragraph. Cheers.
>>-----
>> Happy Herping
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

That came off the wrong way and i apologise. What i meant was that somebody else might have to put the snake away in three (possibly more) circumstances:

1.) the tag is in a major artery, causing the effects of the venom to occur at a much higher rate, possibly incapacitating the keeper from being able to catch and put away the snake

2.) in the case of anaphylactic shock... again, where incapacitation occurs very quickly (in this case - instantly)

3.) where the keeper tries to put the snake away, but, for any number of possible reasons, cannot do it in time before the effects of venom set in.

In these circumstances, if the people you live with aren't also trained, they're gonna have a keeper who is unconscious/vomitting/suffocating/arresting/etc along with a venomous snake to deal with. Yes of course they'd be panic stricken, but, in these cases, somebody's gonna have to be able to competantly deal with the scenario.

All i'm saying is... there is the possibility. And, in the case where that possibility becomes reality, it's safer for EVERYONE if all people residing at the residence are trained.

Would you agree?

Cheers,
Aaron.

Yes Aaron, in those instances, a second, highly qualified person with many years of venomous handling/management experience would be needed. I am assuming your father would always be right there whenever you are working with venomous, and, I am assuming that your father is highly skilled at maneuvering and management the types of venomous herps that you will be keeping.

>>That came off the wrong way and i apologise. What i meant was that somebody else might have to put the snake away in three (possibly more) circumstances:
>>
>>1.) the tag is in a major artery, causing the effects of the venom to occur at a much higher rate, possibly incapacitating the keeper from being able to catch and put away the snake
>>
>>2.) in the case of anaphylactic shock... again, where incapacitation occurs very quickly (in this case - instantly)
>>
>>3.) where the keeper tries to put the snake away, but, for any number of possible reasons, cannot do it in time before the effects of venom set in.
>>
>>In these circumstances, if the people you live with aren't also trained, they're gonna have a keeper who is unconscious/vomitting/suffocating/arresting/etc along with a venomous snake to deal with. Yes of course they'd be panic stricken, but, in these cases, somebody's gonna have to be able to competantly deal with the scenario.
>>
>>All i'm saying is... there is the possibility. And, in the case where that possibility becomes reality, it's safer for EVERYONE if all people residing at the residence are trained.
>>
>>Would you agree?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Aaron.
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

"Yes Aaron, in those instances, a second, highly qualified person with many years of venomous handling/management experience would be needed. I am assuming your father would always be right there whenever you are working with venomous, and, I am assuming that your father is highly skilled at maneuvering and management the types of venomous herps that you will be keeping."

Rob, I don't think it's always going to be practical to have a 'person with many years of venomous handling/management' present at all times for a private keeper. I imagine that many private keepers don't live with experts. Though i wish that this could be possible - for me, it simply isn't (and i imagine that this is the same for many private keepers). Of course, a competent person should always be present (or at least in the vicinity).

That said, i don't think that a person with so many years experience is required to deal with a snake after a tag - So long as they are competent with the specific snakes present, then that will suffice (in my opinion - i acknowledge that yours may differ).

So no, my father at this stage has zero experience with venomous snakes (other than grabbing the odd tiger or two whist fishing/waterskiing - which of course i don't condone). But, i will endeavour to teach him all that i know before making a purchase. He will be the only other person exposed to my hots (other than a select few other people who will merely observe through the glass)

A snake isn't always necessarily going to need putting back in it's box after a tag. The room in which i will be keeping my hots is well and truly capable of containing an animal with it's door shut (i.e. all windows are secure, doors seal tight with a rubber fitting, nothing unneccessary in the room, nowhere for snakes to hide, etc.). So, all that will need to be done in the case of someone being tagged is removal of 'the recipient' from the room and ensurance that the snake is inside it (and of course, to not get bitten.) (and, with that said, another idea has come to mind... a pair of snake hooks hanging outside the herp room so that there is no reason to enter the room without a hook in the case of a known free snake).

With red-bellied blacks, collett's snakes, and blue bellied-black snakes (my potential circumstances), there is a very low risk of an aggressive attack. In fact, they take a great deal of provoking before even attempting a 'lazy half-effort' of a strike. These three species are (for the most part) docile, and don't have a very high top 'travelling' speed (in fact, one could quite safely stand in front of one and be reasonably sure that it will either just pass by them, or turn around and try to hide - i have seen various people do this with taipans - once again, not that i'm suggesting anybody do this... i'm mainly concerned with Pseudechis here. I have read of one time where a redbellied black snake was stood on and it didn't even attempt a strike - of course, this cannot be inferred for all other specimens, and is merely to identify the disposition of the snakes on which i comment).

Rob, there isn't anywhere here in Victoria where a person could get the type of training and hours with hots that many people on these boards recommend. Yes, I know private keepers who are willing to 'show me the ropes'. But, I would by no means ever expect any private keeper to spend 5 hours a week for 4 years (1000 hours, the common figure thrown around here) with me. Not only that, but my father too!

Yes, there are zoos, and wildlife sanctuaries - but these are in high demand for newbies, and, quite simply, nobody has those sorts of hours available to donate to learners (Don't get me wrong, I'd be more than willing to spend 15 hours a week practicing on other people's collections - but that just simply wouldn't be fair on them). There are courses, but these generally run over a single weekend and are expensive.

And, believe me, I wish that my father had the experience you suggest - it would certainly make things a lot easier for me, and others.

I wasn't wishing to start any sort of higher level of discussion here, or be confrontational. I simply think that if a person is going to be exposing others to hots, then it would be a good idea to ensure that those people are prepared to deal with the extremities of this 'hobby' (and that that doesn't necessarily mean having 'years' of experience)

I think, at the end of the day, people will do what they see fit. I will practice what I (and others with more experience with Australian Elapids than me) see to be fit and safe and practical in my schenario (and of course, take into account all advice i receive here and elsewhere in measuring this). This might not be what fits for all - I was merely offering my opinion.

Thanks Rob,

Cheers,
Aaron.
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Happy Herping

Aaron, I think its just safe to say that we will most likely not agree on some of the items discussed here; and that's okay...no sense in turning this into a shouting match. In my opinion, and that's all it is, I truly believe that there are certain absolutes that must be followed when keeping venomous snakes. In some cases, such as your's, these absolutes are probably seen more in terms of what is "ideal" versus what is realistic and I completely understand where you are coming from. Personally, having a snake free roam a room after a bite seems a bit hazardous, but that's just me; you'll obviously do what you feel is best and most responsible and I wish you the best. Make sure your father immerses himself in proper emergency procedures; you and he may need it someday (but I truly hope you don't).

Rob

>>"Yes Aaron, in those instances, a second, highly qualified person with many years of venomous handling/management experience would be needed. I am assuming your father would always be right there whenever you are working with venomous, and, I am assuming that your father is highly skilled at maneuvering and management the types of venomous herps that you will be keeping."
>>
>>Rob, I don't think it's always going to be practical to have a 'person with many years of venomous handling/management' present at all times for a private keeper. I imagine that many private keepers don't live with experts. Though i wish that this could be possible - for me, it simply isn't (and i imagine that this is the same for many private keepers). Of course, a competent person should always be present (or at least in the vicinity).
>>
>>That said, i don't think that a person with so many years experience is required to deal with a snake after a tag - So long as they are competent with the specific snakes present, then that will suffice (in my opinion - i acknowledge that yours may differ).
>>
>>So no, my father at this stage has zero experience with venomous snakes (other than grabbing the odd tiger or two whist fishing/waterskiing - which of course i don't condone). But, i will endeavour to teach him all that i know before making a purchase. He will be the only other person exposed to my hots (other than a select few other people who will merely observe through the glass)
>>
>>A snake isn't always necessarily going to need putting back in it's box after a tag. The room in which i will be keeping my hots is well and truly capable of containing an animal with it's door shut (i.e. all windows are secure, doors seal tight with a rubber fitting, nothing unneccessary in the room, nowhere for snakes to hide, etc.). So, all that will need to be done in the case of someone being tagged is removal of 'the recipient' from the room and ensurance that the snake is inside it (and of course, to not get bitten.) (and, with that said, another idea has come to mind... a pair of snake hooks hanging outside the herp room so that there is no reason to enter the room without a hook in the case of a known free snake).
>>
>>With red-bellied blacks, collett's snakes, and blue bellied-black snakes (my potential circumstances), there is a very low risk of an aggressive attack. In fact, they take a great deal of provoking before even attempting a 'lazy half-effort' of a strike. These three species are (for the most part) docile, and don't have a very high top 'travelling' speed (in fact, one could quite safely stand in front of one and be reasonably sure that it will either just pass by them, or turn around and try to hide - i have seen various people do this with taipans - once again, not that i'm suggesting anybody do this... i'm mainly concerned with Pseudechis here. I have read of one time where a redbellied black snake was stood on and it didn't even attempt a strike - of course, this cannot be inferred for all other specimens, and is merely to identify the disposition of the snakes on which i comment).
>>
>>Rob, there isn't anywhere here in Victoria where a person could get the type of training and hours with hots that many people on these boards recommend. Yes, I know private keepers who are willing to 'show me the ropes'. But, I would by no means ever expect any private keeper to spend 5 hours a week for 4 years (1000 hours, the common figure thrown around here) with me. Not only that, but my father too!
>>
>>Yes, there are zoos, and wildlife sanctuaries - but these are in high demand for newbies, and, quite simply, nobody has those sorts of hours available to donate to learners (Don't get me wrong, I'd be more than willing to spend 15 hours a week practicing on other people's collections - but that just simply wouldn't be fair on them). There are courses, but these generally run over a single weekend and are expensive.
>>
>>And, believe me, I wish that my father had the experience you suggest - it would certainly make things a lot easier for me, and others.
>>
>>I wasn't wishing to start any sort of higher level of discussion here, or be confrontational. I simply think that if a person is going to be exposing others to hots, then it would be a good idea to ensure that those people are prepared to deal with the extremities of this 'hobby' (and that that doesn't necessarily mean having 'years' of experience)
>>
>>I think, at the end of the day, people will do what they see fit. I will practice what I (and others with more experience with Australian Elapids than me) see to be fit and safe and practical in my schenario (and of course, take into account all advice i receive here and elsewhere in measuring this). This might not be what fits for all - I was merely offering my opinion.
>>
>>Thanks Rob,
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Aaron.
>>-----
>> Happy Herping
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Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

np

Rob,

I certainly understand what your saying here....I prefer to have my snakes in cages as opposed to cruising a room that said however...

Generally most "hot rooms" are designed so the snakes can't escape...so I would suggest that if the snake could not be replaced back into its cage then it should be left to "roam" the room until another suitably qualified person came to put the snake back into its enclosure as opposed to someone not competent and/or under stress.

The qualified person(s) should have access to the facility and would used as a fall back when required such as when the hot keeper goes on holidays.

My "hot room" is separate from the house and two other suitable keepers (who I have known and trusted for years) have their own set of keys that use them when I am off on trips/field work. In turn I do it for them whilst they are away.

Whilst I agree its not 100% infaliable I think it effective minimises it to an acceptable level.

Regards,
Scott Eipper

... would you say that it may even be considered in some situations a better idea in the case of a bite, to leave the room immediately, lock the door, and get to the phone??

The snake is secure, and cannot harm anybody. Only experienced keepers have the key to the room. This way, there is no risk of suddenly passing out with the job half done (considerably dangerous indeed!).

I'd rather have a ven locked in a room whom only competent people could access, rather than an escapee (due to effects of venom/anaphylaxis).

I think it would be safer. You can get to a hospital quicker, whilst knowing that no-one else can be harmed.

Of course, this would depend entirely upon the design and location of the room. My room is reasonably large and is to be completely empty of everything except malamine enclosures stacked up against the walls (all holes filled in with more malamine so there's no gaps), and the relevant tools and protocols (and portable phone and spare carkeys) which will hang from the walls. Any snake within wouldn't exactly have 'free roam'. There would be nowhere to hide (and, if need be, anything not enclosed could be viewed through windows to the room). Safe, in my opinion.

There are only two people that have access to my house (the other person to know what needs to happen in the case of a tag).

What do others think?

Aaron,

I am yet to here of someone having a collapse straight after taking a hit,(Al might know) so you should have enough time to put the snake back in its enclosure and lock the room.

Regards,
Scott Eipper

I suppose I was really referring to the extreme cases there, more than generally. Like in cases of immediate anaphylactic shock, etc - might be best to run out, shut door, etc.

Cheers,
Aaron.
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Happy Herping

You're both right.....

I consider Rhinos "advanced" skills because they stress out and die if conditions are not right. Puff Adders, are too dangerous as a first hot, hell Terry Phillips thinks they are one of the more dangerous to have under care.

No one should start with an exotic as their first hot because of the lack of A/V supplies overall.

Al Coritz
neavb.org

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You can take the snake out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of the snake.

The danger of the animals certainly makes all three unacceptable as a first hot. What I may disaree on is the difficulty (not arguing their difficulty). Yes, the humidiy needs and demands of the rhinos is high, but anyone with experience working with enough snakes before they get a hot should be ready for this. They should have worked with enough difficult animals to be prepared. Just my thought. This thought of couse is not taking into consideration the possility of an animal needing feeding assistance. Other than this, Rob covered most of my original thoughts after this post. So if he has been contacted, I hope he has the sense to consider anyone contacting him as irresponsible and unacceptable as a source until they know his level of experience.

Just the opinion of a dedicated snake keeper and avid reader in this forum (as well as a reader of a long list of respected literature) : )

rear fanged snake like a Mangrove would prepare one for a hot. I thinks it's certainly a step in the right direction, they move very quickly, are fairly unpredictable, are known to be aggressive (although that has not been my experience), and do cause a mild envenomation? I read the posts on this site all the time, and it seems that most people here err on the side of caution but to the extent that nobody will ever be ready for a hot. I know that a lot of hot keepers start with less knowledge than they should, and learn along the way. Many feel they were lucky in hindsight and are more strict in terms of who should or who shouldn't own one. This forum is fairly slow so maybe someone could take the time to post their opinion on what they think the proper prerequisite is or are for owning hots. I think it would save a lot of people a lot of time, and give those that want hots a goal to meet. Just a thought, thanks for any responses, Eric

See the posts from about a week ago (or more)... there's a very long-winded discussion on what is classed as 'being ready'.

On another note though, in another forum (who's owner will probably be reading this thanks doc), a person asked 'what was the first venomous snake you ever caught?' or something to that effect. A good half or more of the people that replied said that they caught their first venomous snakes around the age of 10!
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Happy Herping

I have owned plenty of snakes, no venmous ones as I felt i was not ready or capable of doing so. Yes I am a minor as of now, When this purchase is made I will not be. Im leaning more on the gabby then the rhino or the puff because of the puff's attitude and the Rhino's just more advanced level. I have helped many people with the venomoids and watched how people remove their venomous. I already have my bite protocl, and Im doing everything Legally. As far as life risks go, there are no drugs, or alcohol or anything of that nature in my life or around me anymore. I have many experienced keepers I have been talking to but i have talked to them mostly about The gabby, the Gaboon is what I feel will end up being my purchase may it be in two days or two years. Yes, I have my own place, Its a unique situation but I live with a friend and his dad left him the house when he moved out and I bascally own the basement, I have already told him what I may be doing and The first thing I did when I bought my retic's was I went and got a lot of locks (Vision Cages) and Im the only person with the Keys to all of them, and thats only for the fact im afraid of somebody being stupid and trying to play with them when they don't want to be touched. If I do get the Gabby he will be locked as well until cleaning, feeding, etc.

I could have Already bought many hots if I wanted them or felt i was ready yet, Its really not all that regulated, or anything all I'd have to do is make two phone call's and I could have a Gaboon on my door step or at O'Hare Airport, or just have someone 18 buy it for me like people do with Cigarettes, and alcohol. As far as this whole thing goes, I understand the concern but I have already talked to breeders that have told me the same things you are telling me now, Im more interested in learning about what could possibly kill me and then realizing if im ready for something that dangerous or if I want something less dangerous.

Ive worked with water pythons, Retics, Carpets, Ball's, Bloods, Olive's, green Trees, Ive had my share of snakes hating me and Ive had to learn to avoid bites. Especially from my 13 ft retic I got from Bill Alrbight, He hates People, Had him for quite some time and he hasn't ever gotten me neither has half of my other snakes, when I was young and had my carpets I got bit all the time but there were no reprocussions for that other that a little bit of blood here or there.

The only other thing I know what Im getting myself into, and I know when I can and Can't handle something, like my water python she hated me and was extremely large for a water, so I sold her to someone that could take care of her, Ive been around snakes since I was extremely young and granted that most were not venomous, everyone here had to learn what they know now through either experience or other people, and Im trying to go off others experiences.

Pat

The originial reason I posted this was to get information on the Gaboon and how they normally act and if anyone has experience with them and to kinda give me a better feel for the Animal, and any breeder would know (hence why i asked where I could get one from an experienced breeder) Im sorry if my other replay seems a bit harsh and more like me defending myself then anything.
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Pat
1.1 (100% het albino) Retics
1.1 Coastal Carpet Pythons

Picking up a gaboon might land you in some serious trouble. By the sound of it you are from Wisconsin. I hear abot lots of venomoiding there. Sad really. Any Bitis is a bad idea for you right now. Look into where you can get AV. Then look into prices. (not like it will matter for a gaboon...your death is certain)

Just so you know. You cannot pick up a gaboon from o'hare if you ship it legally. The big black letters saying "VENOMOUS" on every side will land you in jail. Very few people in IL can even move a venomous snake and you are not one of them. You are going to need to show proof of what zoo of liscensed facility you work for and you never mentioned working for one. Not to mention, no place would ever send someone under 21 to get a gaboon. I am sure it has been done before and it is all too scary to think where the gaboon will end up if you live near Chicago.

It is sad to think there are people irresponsible enough to get a dangerous snake for a minor. Or cigarettes for that matter. Its no wonder the government feels they need to act as a babysitter. People are absolutely stupid.

Well there's alot Left I need to know, hence the late purchase date of the snake. Im not rushing into this, I merely asked so I could talk to people that breed these. Its just it would be fairly simple to get it now if I wanted, I just don't feel as if im ready yet so I came here looking for information in a better direction towards the people that know the snakes the best, the people that breed them.
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Pat
1.1 (100% het albino) Retics
1.1 Coastal Carpet Pythons

I realize that you are a minor now and a late purchase date would make you legal in that aspect. But PLEASE think of the hobby, Many people including minors are to conceeded or to think that it wont happen, that you wont get bit... I have first hand knowlege that MOST (I'd say >95%) of hospitals DONT know how to care for venomous bites or even when YOU do have YOUR bite protocol they are going to follow what the physician thinks is correct simply becasue he "kows more" then some 18 year old.. There are several people on this board that can attest to that (ie giving spider AV to a snake bite victim hoppeing it would work becasue after all it is AV)

The one part that truely worries me is this statement you made and I quote

"The only other thing I know what Im getting myself into, and I know when I can and Can't handle something, like my water python she hated me and was extremely large for a water, so I sold her to someone that could take care of her,"

You said you know when you can't handle something... well did you know before during or afterwards that you couldn't handle the water python.. I am assuming it was during and after since you had it in your pocession.. Please think what will happen if you realize AFTER buying this gaboon that you can't handle it? what will happen, you can't just let it go, you really cant sell it to anyone and most times you cant give it away...what then.. the animal suffers

At one point I was in your shoes, Please think long and hard, then longer and harder.. If you need to go with something alot less toxic, alot more predictable etc etc.. you are not going to keep AV on hand for this guy so what happens if/When you get bit... you either die or suck the AV away from zoos who truely need it
Please be responsible and safe..
Native species is 10x better then any exotic for a first hot and just as valuable in teaching lessons of keeping

I'm not talking down to you in any way, I hope you know that I'm just trying to help you and keep our ever dying hobby alive
PatrickR

>>I realize that you are a minor now and a late purchase date would make you legal in that aspect. But PLEASE think of the hobby, Many people including minors are to conceeded or to think that it wont happen, that you wont get bit... I have first hand knowlege that MOST (I'd say >95%) of hospitals DONT know how to care for venomous bites or even when YOU do have YOUR bite protocol they are going to follow what the physician thinks is correct simply becasue he "kows more" then some 18 year old.. There are several people on this board that can attest to that (ie giving spider AV to a snake bite victim hoppeing it would work becasue after all it is AV)
>>
>>The one part that truely worries me is this statement you made and I quote
>>
>>"The only other thing I know what Im getting myself into, and I know when I can and Can't handle something, like my water python she hated me and was extremely large for a water, so I sold her to someone that could take care of her,"
>>
>>You said you know when you can't handle something... well did you know before during or afterwards that you couldn't handle the water python.. I am assuming it was during and after since you had it in your pocession.. Please think what will happen if you realize AFTER buying this gaboon that you can't handle it? what will happen, you can't just let it go, you really cant sell it to anyone and most times you cant give it away...what then.. the animal suffers
>>
>>At one point I was in your shoes, Please think long and hard, then longer and harder.. If you need to go with something alot less toxic, alot more predictable etc etc.. you are not going to keep AV on hand for this guy so what happens if/When you get bit... you either die or suck the AV away from zoos who truely need it
>>Please be responsible and safe..
>>Native species is 10x better then any exotic for a first hot and just as valuable in teaching lessons of keeping
>>
>>I'm not talking down to you in any way, I hope you know that I'm just trying to help you and keep our ever dying hobby alive
>>PatrickR
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Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

I realized right away after i opened the box and put her into her new cage that she hated me and wouldn't let me touch her or anything so I took many precautions and sold her when i realized i didn't want to deal with her any longer (couldn't find a male). I came here to find the people that care about the snake and making sure it goes to a responsible owner, not someone that would tell me anything to make me buy it, im not ready yet and came here for information and I have taken all of your suggestions into account but Id rather talk to other breeders and have them tell me more about them.
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Pat
1.1 (100% het albino) Retics
1.1 Coastal Carpet Pythons

"im not ready yet and came here for information and I have taken all of your suggestions into account but Id rather talk to other breeders and have them tell me more about them."

And do you ecpect the breeders to tell you honestly and truthfully that you are not ready yet? or do you expect them to want your money? You couldn't handle a water python... you need more training young skywalker

"im not ready yet and came here for information and I have taken all of your suggestions into account BUT Id rather talk to other breeders and have them tell me more about them."

And do you expect the breeders to tell you honestly and truthfully that you are not ready yet? or do you expect them to want your money? You couldn't handle a water python...please dont make the jump to hots you need more training young skywalker... but in the end you'll do what you want anyways...

...waiting quite a while before you get a gabby.

You seem to have reasonable experience with other snakes, so, why don't you first get some hands on experience with an experienced local keeper and then start of with something easier in the meantime (before the gabby, seeing as you'll be waiting a while anyways)?

Cheers,
Aaron.
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Happy Herping

Well..... If you where ready to keep them you wouldn't have to ask where to get them....

in the previous someone posted this

"Well..... If you where ready to keep them you wouldn't have to ask where to get them...."

This is untrue someone may have 100 hours experience caring for a local keepers gabby and still not no were to get one.

And alot of you go on about age. Age plays NO part in how well you can care for a venomous snake or how responsible you are.
I am 15 turning 16 in december and have 5 venomous snakes.
I have a western diamondback rattlesnake as my first venomous snake and i have a gaboon viper 2 eyelash vipers and 1 egyptian cobra. I got all of them from my dad long time venomous snake(his dad had venomous snakes)so he has grown up around venomous snakes and caught his first venomous snake at 10 and has quiet a impressive collection. he has taught me the proper techniques since i was 10.I have never been bitten and i don't intend to get bitten

kind regards snakeboi