Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Fellow Herpers:

I have been thinking lately about all of these laws being passed by the aid of animal "rights" activists and such. As we have all discussed and noticed, on each of their websites one of their biggest pet peeves is the "safety for americans" when it comes to keeping exotic pets.

In the end, we all know that this is all bull$%!#. They are trying to dig up as much dirt as they can about every exotic animal, so that they can claim that they are a danger to humans. What we need to do is a research on EVERYTHING that has caused deaths to humans. We should also do research on all of the things that cause sickness to humans.

I feel that if we can provide a chart of all death cases and illnesses and compare them to deaths and illnesses brought upon humans by exotic animals, then that might just be a step in the right direction.

Also, while some of you in here may not agree with keeping Tigers, Lions, etc. in captivity privately (never heard any complaints, but just thought I would bring it up to be certain) but we are ALL in the same boat. Herpetological societies seem pretty worthless during these times. I think we all need to work together to accomplish our goals.

Together we are ONE, divided we are NONE.

Just some food for thought..

chris
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Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

I agree that I would love to see an accurate chart comparison that can be used for the purposes of putting things in perspective. I have done alot of internet searching for similar statistics, but everything is so varied and I don't know how to go about getting some real statistics. Some statistics that I found very interesting are the number of dog attacks and deaths per year. Many places state that there are thousands of bites and attacks that result in a trip to the hospital and there are around(so I have read) anywhere from 12-40 deaths per year by dogs. But god forbid they try to take away your rights to have a dog, unless it is a pit bull of course.

I did read recently through another list, that the National Balloon Association declared that there are on average 6 deaths per year by balloons from people choking on them. This madness needs to be stopped and we must ban all balloons! The reality of it is, there are more people killed by balloons than by privately owned reptiles in the US. Same goes for people killed by large exotic felines.

This post, I do believe, goes hand in hand with my post below about herp laws. I truly expected it to be a hot subject with alot of input, but in the last day, there has only been one response. This worries me alot. It seems as though everyone would rather [bleep] and whine about laws that are being passed than actually stand up and do something about it. I for one am one that stands up and not only declares when a law or statement is wrong or bias, but more than that, I offer my assistance to come up with a viable solution.

I do agree that all exotic animal owners are in the same boat and all need to do their part, though I believe few are as heavily persecuted as the reptile keepers.

... they're under attack! The evil balloons are at it again!

The average of six deaths per year reported by the Balloon Council was for the 1990's. The annual rate for the 1980's was eleven. The difference is credited to education and awareness, not banning.

Thank you for that information. I found that very useful and that is good information to have. That helps with the arguement of education being key, another part reptile keepers can play in their communities. I do 30-40 school and group presentations a year and would like to think that it helps a little in the overall mentality of the people in this area.

That nice lady from ARRF (I think her name is Holly Bowman)discussed earlier in this forum has provided me with "incident" reports from Florida for the last 10 years or so. She offered to give me the stats for U.S. and worldwide but I didn't need these. Perhaps if you send her a nice email she could do this for you. Be warned that Ms. Bowman (if that is her name) is the organizations exotic animal expert. She believes that alligators and panthers are exotic to Florida.
The incident reports actually refute ARFF's claim of animals being a public health risk. The numbers are low (like lottery winning low) and almost exclusively involve injuries (not deaths)to people intentionally interacting with the critters (thereby making the risk nil, nada, nothing to anyone else).

Good luck,
Jim

I just thought I would point out that you will not win anything in the herp keeping society's favor by pointing out that other things are dangerous too.
That will just give the special interest groups more targets.
I have seen the comparison to gun keeping, dog keeping, and motor vehicle use.
Gun keeping - has a multimillion dollar lobby whose sole purpose is to ensure that people are still allowed to buy/own/use guns. They are still under constant attack by anti gun proponents.
Dog keeping - the type of dog that you can keep is highly regulated in many parts of the country, usually at the city/parish/county level. Several breeds of dogs are completely banned in various parts of the country and many places make restrictions on the dog you can own based on its size and weight.
Motor vehicle use is one of the most regulated and licensed things in the United States. For the federal government to become as involved in venomous (or even any reptile) keeping regulations, you would have to be able to prove that there are as many people involved as there are drivers in the U.S. and that clearly is not going to happen.
SO
That means that laws will continue to be made at the local and state level and the community, which cannot even pull its collective head out of the sand and see that a permit system is the best defense against a complete ban, will continue to be more and more restricted.
Letter writing campaigns, etc are more effective than nothing but there is nothing in the world that compares to personal face-to-face involvement. There are plenty of people who have no jobs other than maintaining their household (trying not to be sexist or anything here) with nothing better to do than to go appear before whatever committee and give their opinion about how horrible and dangerous it is for there to be venomous snakes kept in their neighborhood/city/county/parish/state/country.
Just something to think about,
Karl H. Betz

I was going to post the same thing. My thought was to ask people if they knew guns killed more people each year than snakes. I think your response was more tasteful. The comparisons have been beaten to death and they certainly do not make us any friends. Has anyone heard dogs cause more cases of salmonella than reptiles. It is highly to do with their increased numbers and raw hide. Not to mention their dirty outdoor habbits. But who cares. I certainly do not want everyone with a dog fighting against everyone with a potentially dangerous snake. Lets work on fighting our own battles and leave the finger pointing to the radicals. It does make me sick PETA got all the support from the Pam Anderson roast though. How can venomous snake supporters top that? Find a hotter celebrity who likes venomous snakes and get them to advertise it on basic cable.......must have been a full moon last night because I have no idea how that dream happened. Hotter celebrity than Pam Anderson, what am I thinking.

I also agree. The goal should not be to compare dangers to other things (which is statistically difficult) but rather to point out that the absolute public health risk is negligible.