Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey all,

Need some help. Found a boa for sale that is highly abberrant, identical to some of the best jungle boas i've seen. The owner says that it was produced by breeding an abberrant male to normal female. About half the litter came out abberant.

My question is, if this proves out to be a co=dominant gene, and since these boas look like the so called "jungle" morph, does that mean they are jungles? or what?

Thanks for any info.

If i acquire them, will post photos.

1.0 Snow boa
0.1 Double het Snow
0.1 Sunglow boa
1.0 Motley boa
1.0 Hypo het albino
1.1 Surinam red tails

they wouldn't be jungles unless they came from a known jungle line.

What they would be is a new (possibly, depending on the true heritage of the aberrant parent) line of genetically aberrant boa, which would be a wonderful thing to buy into at the beginning... i just wouldn't pay jungle prices for unproven babies! but if it proves out, you'd be in a great position!

bc

It would only be a jungle if when bred to a "real" jungle you could somehow determine if any super jungles were produced. That is, ofcourse, assuming that the "real" jungle was indeed a jungle and not just a normal and so on etc, etc.

Bob

Just The "MOTLEY" wannabes
Its not just pattern but coloration that makes Jungle Gene.
Call your snake what you want. but its not a Jungle.
Michael
Boas Etc.com

the snake must come from the Swedish line of Jungles. An identical snake popping up in a breeding would not be a jungle. Even if the aberrant animal was co-dominant (not getting into this discussion) and made more aberrant babies with jungle coloring, it would not be a jungle. The line would need a new name. Every aberrant snake with great color is not a jungle. They are aberrant snakes with great color. A snake must come from the Swedish lines to be a "JUNGLE". Simple enough. Let's put it this way. Say someone were to breed two "normal" BCI with no special genetics. In the litter an albino is born. This albino looks exactly like a Sharp line albino. It is NOT a Sharp line albino. Just because it talks the talk and walks the walk does not cut it. It would be a new strain of albino. Even if the gene was compatible with the Sharp strain, it would need to originate from the Sharp strain to be a Sharp albino. Clear as mud? Good!

Phil Goss

If I popped out a boa that looked just like a jungle and I raised it and bred it to a norm and got half jungles then bred it to a jungle and got super jungles guess what its a jungle in my book!!! The same goes for your albino theroy espically in that case because who knows if they were both possible possible hets sold as normals that just happened to come together (stranger things have happened). If it looked sharp and I proved it to be compatable with sharp strain and not kahl strain I would have to say it is sharp strain, although I'm sure some would market it as a new line without really knowing just to try to cash in.

In the case of the new albino line, I said that two "normal" BCI with "no special genetics". If they were het. for Sharp, they would have special genetics. Even if they were not sold as hets, they would have the genetics. I can see your point, and disagree with you at the same time. The great thing about this forum is that we can all post our opinions. That is what I posted. I am not saying I am right or that I am wrong. I am stating my opinions.

Phil Goss

I'm tired of seeing too many snakes posted as Jungle, Junglish, possible Jungle, etc., when most of them are nothing more than aberrant boas. They should be labelled as nothing more than aberrant boas until future breeding proves otherwise. Even if they throw aberrant babies, they are not Jungle. They are aberrant snakes that produce aberrant babies. Many hypo breedings have produced aberrant babies. These are not hypo Jungles. Aberrancies seem to be linked with many hypo lines. Even if these babies are identical to hypo Jungles, they are not Jungles. The true genetics have to be there.

Phil Goss

P.S. Obviously Pete can label some of his as possible Jungles, and others who have the "TRUE" Jungle line.

I really hate seeing all these boas that are not jungles posted as jungles or junglish, but I also think it is always possible to "pop out" a jungle randomly and have it prove out as a true jungle, it must have happened once or there would be no jungles. I would say however that you could not market it as such until it was proven by breeding trials. Just a little side note if any pair of boas popped out an albino then they must have some kind of genetics going on somewhere no matter what line it be, even if they were sold as normals so your example is really not valid then. Please dont take any of my writings as a personal attack, I am just stating my opinion as you stated yours. I see this as nothing more than stimulating conversation and I hope you do the same.

You said that a random jungle could pop up in a litter, but an albino could not. The original Kahl line albino came from somewhere. There were not special genetics involved. Albinism is a mutation. Albino animals pop up. The first time it is always a fluke. It just so happens that both albino lines in boas happen to be recessive traits, but the first albino did not come from two animals that were recessive for albino. Albinos are genteic defects for all practical purposes. Granted, they are beautiful genetic defects, but genetic defects none the less. And I'm not in any way stating that albinos should not be bred. My collection includes both pure locality animals and various BCI morphs. I simply have a fascination with them all. I do not take your post as an attack, not am I attacking you. Just talking.

Phil Goss

that it is more likely that the first albinos were produced by a pair of hets in the wild. I do believe that the gene just "popped" up but I really don't think that it popped up twice in the same animal right away. I tend to believe that the albino gene "popped" up in a normal looking het. animal first which reproduced, and eventually a het pair of ancestors to the original het. albino came together and produced the first albinos. That would explain why more than one albino of about the same size and age were found in such close proximity. Now in the case of a Dominant or Co-Dominant animal such as a jungle all it would take is a single gene mutation to produce the actual morph, meaning it would "pop" up in the first generation and be much more likley to occur in captive breedings, unless you make a habbit of line breeding all your animals to see if they are het for something which I dont think alot of people do with "normal" type boas. So to reply to your post no I dont think that the first albino just popped up I think it came from a pair of hets that came from a het that just popped up, if that makes any sense to you.

Just thought I would give you guys my 2 cents. If someone bred an abberant animal to a jungle and got "supers" (orange eyed jungles), then both boas would be jungles. There would be no "new" morph. You may be able to name it as your line of jungles but you would not be able to name the actual morph. The same goes with albinos, if it is compatible, then it is. This being said, no one should jump to label any boa unless it has been properly proven/unproven. Using the "car theory" someone would not build a car using all Ford parts and call it a Chevy, maybe that was not such a good example. LOL. I have seen SOOO many people trying to label animals as their own line or morphs only after breeding once and using a line of boas already established by other breeders. Okay, this is getting too long now, I hope this helps clear the air a bit.

Pretty simple guys, if it is then it is, if it's not then it's not but in order to find out you must PROVE IT (unless you purchased it as an actual morph from a reputable breeder).

np