Reptile & Amphibian Forums

im currently in the process of building my first live vivariuim but it wont be housing any darts.it will house my favorite green tree python in my collection.typically green trees are housed in typical arborial enclosures,with a couple pvc pipes,fake plants and some sort of substrate to hold moisture.basically,an easy to clean, sterile type of setup.its not common to house them in live planted vivariums,not that they cant be,but its not common.because of my desire to have a really nice display,i decided to custom build a glass cage with front sliding doors,dartfrog style false bottom,waterfall,entire bottom of live moss,and 2 forked branches glued to the sides as a perch(green trees almost never leave their perch)anyway,my question is about parasites.do you guys think my snake can have any health problems from using branches and rocks found outside,and from plants bought in a nursery?just to be safe i cleaned the branches and rocks and placed them in the oven for a while to kill anything or any eggs that may be hiding in there,so im sure thats safe but what about the plants,moss and other things i cant clean?can reptiles catch parasites from plants or only from other infected reptiles?what precautions if any should i take.this is my first vivarium and i just dont want any unforseen problems.im sure with live plants i will get some unwanted insects,and im sure i cant use any pesticides,but its not harmless bugs im worried about,its anything,external(ticks,mites ect) or internal(worms)that i may introduce into my vivarium by using these store bought plants and wild collected moss.thanks a bunch and im sorry for posting here and not in the green tree forum but like i said,its very uncommon to house snakes like you guys house your darts so i figured you guys would know best,thanks in advance.

anything collected from the wild(wood, plants, ect.) has a risk of carrying pests. when i use decoration i've collected i usually microwave it rather than baking in the oven. i mean to bake it and it to be effective you must heat the wood to what 200 degrees and all the way through? or else it'll end up kinda like that bad thanksgiving dinner when the turkey is still frozen in the center. with plants being bought, i've bought plants from online and my local nursery and have never had a pest problem. use common sense and find a nice, well lit and clean nursery to buy from. any plants with a dead leaf or some kind of damage i would stay away from them, don't know what caused it. my online dealer is customecos.com, well their called custom ecos. do a yahoo search for it. you will also haveto upgrade on your lighting i'm sure. ahsupply.com has great light kits and conversion kits for standard aquarium hoods. i did the dual 10 gal hood kit and its great, promotes lots of growth. hope this helps.

Thanks for thinking of us! I'm sure I speak for many of us when I say that making a viv is half the fun no matter what you house in it! It sounds like a great setup. You were right in putting branches and rocks in the oven, the plants are going to be a bit trickier. I would recommend setting up the viv w/ the plants and everything except the snake and let it live for a while.

This time is gonna help b/c you can make sure that the waterfall isn't splashing too high or cloging with plant matter. You'll also be able to see bugs (if there are any) start moving around and trying to getting comfy and that's when you can squish them. Some people say that waiting a month is good, but I think 2 weeks is the longest I've ever been able to wait. Basically its making sure that the tank is working well before introducing your snake to avoid any stress.

Post pictures when your done! Good luck!
Nicole

ok 2 comments and then a question.tonight i began placing some plants and live moss in.anyway,i had a couple branches that i decided to add that i found outside,so i just thought i would microwave them for a couple minutes.there must have been an ant nest in it because i microwaved it for a full 4 minutes,it came out steaming but swarming with live ants!!!! they actually survived 4 minutes in the microwave!guess micorwaving is not an effective way of killing insects.lol a second comment is,i just noticed 2 small weird looking earwig type insects.made me wonder whatelse was living in the moss.since im in no rush to introduce my snake,is there a way to treat the cage for insects that is safe for reptiles?i mean a reptile safe pesticide?like i said i dont have to put the snake in right away and can leave time for any fumes and for the cage to clear out.any thoughts?>

oh yea,one more question and ill leave you guys alone.i have a lighting consern and i need it addressed as i just added the first of my moss and plants tonight.im currently using ,i think its a zoomed full spectrum compact florecent for reptiles and i know it gives off both uva abd uvb.is this ok for plants as well?and if not what should i do?

First, where do you live? Knowing what lives in your area naturally will help decide if there is anything there that could hurt your snake.

Because you're dealing with a snake, and ticks and mites are your main enemies, I would research the types of tickes/mites that live in your area and what kills them.

I think I can speak for most when I say that using pesticide in an enclosed environement like a viv is NOT a good idea. It is not likely that your has the biodiversity to deal with breaking down such a compound, and could ultimately harm your snake. So when dealing with your viv keep it simple.

Baking branches and rocks is a great start. For plants, though it will really stress the plant, rinse all of the origial dirt out of the roots and then plant it. This will keep the little foam balls that are in most store bought plant's dirt out of your tank, and clean most if not all of the eggs that could be in your tank.

From recent personal experience, wood that is siliconed to glass in a humid tank may come loose. As the wood fibers absorb moisture they loose strength and will pull apart from the fibers glued to the tank. You may want to add additional structural support for the limbs since they will be supporting your snake as well as their own weight.

There are a few insects you should expect to see in your tank. Springtails, rooleypooley's, small ammounts of ants, and other insects that you probably played with as a child. Many of these will just die off, ants being one, and your earwig being another. Springtails and RPs won't but they're not harmful. Don't be too apt to kill every insect you see, this is supossed ot be a living viv right?...

Thanks for thinking of the Dart community to help you out, I think most of us have green thumbs and love our tanks almost as much as the frogs. I know I do.

yea i knew i came to the right place,when i posted the same question in another forum,the advise i got was to spray bleach in the tank to kill anything.yea it will kill everything,insects,plants.mysnake!!ha ha so you think placing a flea collar in the tank overnight is a bad idea? even after waiting a week or more to introduce my snake?im curious about moss.most of my tank has various species of live,wild collected moss.it looks amazing now,and im hoping that it will spread and fill in the cracks between species but im not expecting much as i hear that local,temperate mosses do very poorly in an indoor vivarium.has anyone had success with these carpet looking mosses that grow inbetween cracks in the sidwalk.if so maybe youd like to share some tips on how to keep them alive and grow.i did learn an interesting trick that im thinking of trying,ill share it with you guys ,maybe its something you didnt hear about yet.first you find the moss species outside youre looking for.i know a lot of people would really love to have the type of moss you see growing on rotted wood near streams,grow in and on rocks and wood in your vivariums.anyway,you find the species and make sure its on what you want it to grow on.like for example,if you have a rock wall that youd love to be covered in green moss,you find a moss covered rock in the woods.you take a testtube or similar sterile glass container and scrape off some of the moss into the tube,mix in a little beer,or buttermilk or even watered down yogurt(plain yogurt) mix in a little sugar,mix into a paste and use a small paint brush to brush this paste onto any rocks you want to become moss covered.make sure the tank stays very humid but for the first week or so keep direct water sprays or drips off that rock.in about a week or so its supposed to begin turing green with new moss growth.after it begins to grow and anchor to the rock you can allow water to be sprayed lightly on it.you can do a similar paste for wood but im told to make sure you get moss from wood and not rocks.has anyone ever tried to grow alge in their vivariums?i think it also looks really nice and im thinking about adding it also but im afraid it may spread all over and kill my moss.

The UV will not harm your plants. I would get the tougher plants like pothos, Chinese Evergreen, maybe a baby palm, a tough ivy, ficus, etc. for a snake vivarium. Rinse off the roots, and also turn them upside down in some hot (110 degree) soapy water and wash the leaves free from pesticide residue, mites or other insects. Rinse them in warm water, then plant. For sanitizing wood to get rid of ants and undesirable insects, boiling for about 20 minutes will do the job better than anything.

You are unlikely to get any parasites from collected or purchased plants that will affect your snake, particularly if the snake is not native to your area. Parasites in general are relatively specific, so if your snake is not exposed to other snakes and is already free of skin parasites, it won't get them from the plants. Internal parasites won't be a problem from the plants or substrate. Your snake would have to ingest them, even if some stage of them were present on the plants, which is doubtful. Most require an intermediate host that the snake feeds upon.

You are unlikely to get much algae, since unlike our dart vivariums, which are usually closed completely without much ventilation to keep up the 80 to 100% humidity, you will have more ventilation. The algae won't harm your moss, and will be harmless if it does occur. I wipe it off the glass of my vivariums all the time for the sake of esthetics, but I doubt you will have this problem with a snake set up. I use straight white vinegar for cleaning the glass. The fumes are not toxic, but you can blow them off with a fan while you're doing it, because they do seem strong. Vinegar is a great sanitizer-doderizer and gets rid of calcium deposits from water splashes better than anything.

Please do post some pictures. I've always wondered why nearly all reptile cages have plastic plants and lack interesting features, especially those reptiles that don't burrow or tend to squash plants.

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

My tanks are all planted with temprate moss, Ohio, and I have had no problem with it dying out or the like. I have been unsucessful with the moss typically found in sidewalks, but the courser moss that tends to grow on rotting wood now totally occupies my tanks. I'll have to take some pics this weekend and post them so you can see what kind I'm talking about.

All I have ever done is keep the moss moist with city tap water and let nature take its course. I have been able to take store bought craft moss and after rinising the dye out got it to grow, but that takes months and in the mean time you have a lovely brown tank.

I've experimented with moss and buttermilk/yogort and all I ever get is mold. I want to do more experiements with it, but with school starting I don't have the time or money.

Keep us posted, and yes, pictures would be nice.