Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have a new hog that seems very sick. When I saw him this morning he had his mouth open. I opened the cage and he seemed fine, but them started kind of hopping around. I thought it was him just putting on a show, but he is even worse now. He has been jerking around all day and now is basically curled up in a ball and just shaking. Does anyone know why this may be happening or what I can do? The only thing I have done is use Provent-A-Mite, and I followed the directions. None of my otyher snakes are having an trouble.

Please let me know what I can do.

Thanks Jeremy
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0.1 Amel Motley Corn (Cosmo '03)
0.1 Baird's Ratsnake (Sugaree '04)
1.0 White Oaks Grey Rat (Tennesse Jed '04)
0.1 IJ Carpet Python (Cassidy '04)
1.0 Western Hognose (Samson '05)
1.1 Shepherd mix (Dylan 6yrs, Porter 1.5yr)

While an overdose of provent-a-mite may very well cause neurological symptoms that may resemble what your snake is doing, it would take a much higher dose than what is suggested on the label. Is it possible that this snake ingested a large amount? Is his quarantine cage less ventilated than your other snake's cages?

Either way, guessing at what is going on won't help. It could be tonnes of things; low calcium, low blood glucose, tumor, head trauma, vestibular disease...ect and in no particular order.

This snake needs to be seen by a veterinarian right now. If you can't find a herp vet, the after hours emerg. clinic may have a vet willing to see snakes. At this point any veterinarian is needed to stabilize this snake until a specialist can be consulted. Call around.

Good luck with your new hognose, I'm sure it was nothing that you've done, but it's what you will do in the next few hours that matters.

Ian

The cage is a front sliding Neo cage, so not quite as ventilated, so I took a lot more precautions. I gave it much longer to dry and also aired out the fumes much more. I used a hand fan several times to air it out.

Speaking of the neurological issues, the one thing I noticed fromday 1 is that it spent a lot of time on it's side. Even when crawling around, he always seemed a little off. The person I got him from said it was no problem, but maybe it was a sign of things to come.

Here are 2 pics that kind of show how he seemed a little off.

I hate to sound bad, but I don't think I can make it to an emergency vet right now. I just don't think I could spend that kind of money right now. I hope that doesn't turn off any future help, but that is how it is.

I appreciate your help and any further suggestions you may have.

Thanks
Jeremy

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0.1 Amel Motley Corn (Cosmo '03)
0.1 Baird's Ratsnake (Sugaree '04)
1.0 White Oaks Grey Rat (Tennesse Jed '04)
0.1 IJ Carpet Python (Cassidy '04)
1.0 Western Hognose (Samson '05)
1.1 Shepherd mix (Dylan 6yrs, Porter 1.5yr)

It's unfortunate that you cannot spend any money on your pet. Why did you get one that was acting sick right from the get-go?

What is the lump in your snake's throat that is visible on the second picture?

This snake does not have a good quality of life, nor does it look to show any signs of improving this with anything that you can do at home. I strongly suggest that you take this guy to a vet, borrow money, or whatever you have to do. The alternative to treatment is a humane euthanasia by your vet to end this little guy's suffering. Doing nothing is the wrong thing to do in this case.

As far as cost goes, you can expect 30-50 for an exam, 40-100/day hospitalization, 30-50 on misc. med's, and/or 50-200 on diagnostics... it all depends on the experience of the vet you are using, what they have available to offer your snake as per care, and of course the course of action prescribed by your vet. Be honest and say that money is a huge factor; this will affect their treatment plan.

You are always welcome on this forum, and I will always respond with the best advice I have for you. Some times though, all there is to say is "take it to the vet".

Ian

ps, Remember that I am in Canada, and working at an emergency vet clinic, I could be waaaay off on my price guestimates!

I appreciate the response Ian.

He is actually doing much better. I talked with Bob from Pro Products and he said this is typical of inhalation of PAM. He said that the symptoms last 2-3 days and has no affect after this.

I almost put him down, but I didn't, and after talking with Bob that is a good thing. I have to admit it was a very disturbing thing to go through, but I hope we have a happy ending. He is actully tongue flicking, and even huffed a little when I was checking on him. He even made it into his water bowel.

To answer some of your questions, I got him off of the classifieds here. I thought it was strange how he moved, but I was told it was no big deal. He ate great, and was always alert and active. I don't know what the lump is you see, but he doesn't have anything wrong with his throat.

thanks so much for the advice, and I will let you know what happens from here on out. I hope to bring back good news.

Jeremy
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0.1 Amel Motley Corn (Cosmo '03)
0.1 Baird's Ratsnake (Sugaree '04)
1.0 White Oaks Grey Rat (Tennesse Jed '04)
0.1 IJ Carpet Python (Cassidy '04)
1.0 Western Hognose (Samson '05)
1.1 Shepherd mix (Dylan 6yrs, Porter 1.5yr)

It's good that you are seeing some improvement. In cases of toxicity it is always a matter of waiting until the product has been metabolized and excreted. In extreme cases such as this one it is ideal to use fluid therapy to dilute the toxin during this process to hopefully speed it's exit, and minimize it's effect upon the tissues/organs.

If your snake is "out of the woods" so to speak, the emergency has died down, but it is still a good idea to:

1)Get a blood test done to measure organ and immune function. This will help predict future problems and may help with prevention (ie, if the kidneys were damaged during toxicity, which is likely). This will also prove beneficial in the future to compare to any other blood tests that may be needed for related or unrelated reasons.

2)Check out what's going on with that lump. An Xray or ultrasound will help your veterinarian see what's up. This lump is not normal.

I wouldn't wait too long for these things, but as long as your snake is bright, alert, active, and eating/defecating normally, you have a little bit of time.

Good luck, and have fun with your new snake
Ian

I realize this response is a bit late, but perhaps better late than never. That lump on the snake reminds me of a Taiwan Beauty Snake I had once received. He also had a large lump, about 1/4 of the way down his body from his head. I took it to the vet and it turned out to be an enlarged heart. Unfortuantly, there isn't anything that can be done about it (unless you can get on the hognose donor list and find a heart to transplant). But seriously, I was told that he would either grow into it, or he would die. Unfortunately, 2 months after the diagnosis, the later happened.

Good luck with your hognose and I'm sure we would like to hear an update.

I hope things are going well for your little guy. All I would say besides that is when you get a critter of any kind, it's important to realize that they may need care or medical attention now and then and if you can't afford to take care of it (even when that means providing medical treatment) then you should resist the urge to buy (or otherwise acquire) the critter in the first place. They completely depend on their caregivers to make sure they have whatever is necessary to give them the best chance at survival. If you hadn't gotten him maybe someone ~ who could afford to give him medical treatment would have. That could mean the difference between life and death. Their life may not be like yours or mine but it is the only one they've got.

I'm not trying to rag on you man, FOR SURE! But there's so many people getting various critters either without proper knowledge of how to care for them or without the finances or willingness to spend the money on providing care for them. But that's our responsibility when we agree to take them in. It becomes our stewardship.

Again, I wish the best for your little guy . . . and I'm not trying to come down on you specifically, but for anyone reading these . . .if you can't afford or are unwilling to spend the money on their care then please resist the urge to get one. Sometimes their life depends on being able to get medical attention when it's needed.