Reptile & Amphibian Forums

eastern milk snake

I see you've labelled these as Easterns- I bought this pair this weekend as red milks- and LOL they look the same to me...Any ideas how to definitively tell a red milk from an Eastern milk?

the spelling!
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0.1 Snow Corn "Hope"
1.0 Redtail "Kilo"
1.0 Ball Python "Road Hog"
1. Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Chunk" (Goonies)
.1 Orange Albino Black Ratsnake "Peaches" (Didn't name her!)

Those are eastern milks my friend.

Doesn't matter much to me except to be accurate in names- what are the differences between the two?

I believe these are sibs, one looks slightly different going into shed...

One readily took a f/t pinkie, the other didn't...

The Red Milk Snake has larger and fewer markings than the Eastern Milk Snake - the dorsal markings extend down well onto the sides and the lateral markings are very small to almost absent. Also, the markings are more red and the background is more white in the Red Milk Snake

One of those milks has a pretty well defined neck ring. That's unusual for an eastern. But it's common in reds and coastals.
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Steve W.

milks from a reptile dealer from NY? There's a dealer who frequents the NYC tri state area shows and sells easterns as reds. I believe he digs up nests or catches gravid females and sells them as reds b/c taking easterns in illegal in NY.
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Anthony Chodan

www.gradeareptiles.com

are you sure about the legal status? I've never heard that. could you send a link. is it only for WC animals that are sold. IE could I keep a pwc pair and breed them? thanks
wayne

I would be very careful with making accusations being that you said you "believe" he's doing it. Just a word of caution.
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Steve W.

E-mail me at minimaggg@aol.com
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Steve W.

Thanks for the answer swwit- LOL the one with the more "red milk" neck ring actually has the more "Eastern" side patterning-

To define these as two distinct subspecies isn't there a more objective variance than subtle differences in pattern? I was hoping someone would point out a definition in scale counts or some such...

These are actually way, way calm when handled, for such tiny hatchlings, I'd easily believe they are captive bred stock.

Yes, there are some differences in scale counts that can be broadly applied to the different geographical populations of Lampropeltis triangulum. However, the variances in these often overlap between the subspecies. The many different races (subspecies) of milks have broad areas of intergradation where their ranges abut. Most milksnake subspecies have been defined using color/pattern as the most important criteria. A black neck ring is used to distinguish between syspila and triangulum, but may or may not be present in intergrade zone specimens. Hope this helps.
-Cole

But I have seen him at White Plains and Hamburg. The reason I believe they're wc is because I caught him once. He had like 5 babies in a 10 gallon tank. When someone asked to see them so they could sex them, the kid working the table reached under the table and pulled out a pillow case with at least 50-80 more. No single breeder produces that many easterns. He has to be nest collecting or catching gravid females.

This dealer also had Aladabra tortoises which I was in the market for last year. He had decent prices, and upon questioning him, he was fast to dismiss any in depth care questions and gave me one word answers...no wait...all after...get this...claiming to breed them...lol...with an address in LONG ISLAND of all places!!! Said he had an outdoor cage where they stayed all year! lol

definately not a credible dealer!
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Anthony Chodan

www.gradeareptiles.com

Thanks Sunherp-

I always think the discussions of band counts etc are interesting ie Sinaloans (I've got a pair) vs Nelson's etc, and the Tyrell County, Coastals and intergrades are a fun puzzle to try to ID...

I'm looking forward to seeing how these grow out, if they hold their color or dull down...They have got nice personality, and one already took a brained f/t, so I hope they'll eat reasonably easily...

Take care