Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Caught this guy/girl back in the beggining of may in Lawrenceville, IL (South East). I snapped a few pics up away from the pond and then brought it back and released it. My question: Northern or midland?

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0.1 Green Iguana (Sisco)
0.1 Rose Hair T (Sweets)
1.1.4 Hairless Rats (Socrates, The Three Stooges and Left Eye)
3.2 Ball Pythons (Stratos, She-Ra, Skeletor(0.1 oops on the name!), Sy-Cloone, Stinkor)
1.0 Striped Cal. King (Snuggles)

Another pic...

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0.1 Green Iguana (Sisco)
0.1 Rose Hair T (Sweets)
1.1.4 Hairless Rats (Socrates, The Three Stooges and Left Eye)
3.2 Ball Pythons (Stratos, She-Ra, Skeletor(0.1 oops on the name!), Sy-Cloone, Stinkor)
1.0 Striped Cal. King (Snuggles)

Water snake in a tree...
The snakes down there would sun in the branches over hanging the pond that they lived on. Whenever I came up over the hill they would jump into the water before I could even get a picture. This snake however was very ornery (sp?). I tried to hook it out of the tree and he just moved a little, just out of reach. I was down there a week and I finally caught one just before we were going to leave for the airport. It was about 8am and the pond and grass around the pond were LOADED with snakes, it was my lucky day!

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0.1 Green Iguana (Sisco)
0.1 Rose Hair T (Sweets)
1.1.4 Hairless Rats (Socrates, The Three Stooges and Left Eye)
3.2 Ball Pythons (Stratos, She-Ra, Skeletor(0.1 oops on the name!), Sy-Cloone, Stinkor)
1.0 Striped Cal. King (Snuggles)

Based on locality and pattern (that can be seen on your first picture) it seems as though you were enjoying a nice population of northern waters, N.s.sipedon. Midlands/intergrades should have had more broken banding and (although color is most variable and definitely not a reliable method of separation) less slate-more-brown/red color. In this species, ventral pattern can help out, so if you're ready to take a mouthy hit next time, roll one over and snap a belly shot (grin).

It is always interesting to me to see these animals as "pond" critters. Both the region in which I grew up, and the region where the species approaches where I presently live (both to the south of where you found your specimens), have several species of Nerodia in stillwater habitats, however, sipedon is never one of them. In these regions they are pretty much only to be found in creeks and rivers. Also, the region in which I grew up would be considered an intergradation zone for sipedon. Here, pattern and color come in such variety that you can hike a stream and swear you've seen two or three species of snake when, in reality, you've seen but one. Thanks for sharing the pictures. Those were very robust animals.

Thanks for the info. Do these snakes poop all over people alot? Or bite? This snake did try very hard to flee from the bucket I had, but it never even coiled up for a strike and it did not deficate the whole half hour that I had him in my possession.(SP?) -Joe

>>Based on locality and pattern (that can be seen on your first picture) it seems as though you were enjoying a nice population of northern waters, N.s.sipedon. Midlands/intergrades should have had more broken banding and (although color is most variable and definitely not a reliable method of separation) less slate-more-brown/red color. In this species, ventral pattern can help out, so if you're ready to take a mouthy hit next time, roll one over and snap a belly shot (grin).
>>
>>It is always interesting to me to see these animals as "pond" critters. Both the region in which I grew up, and the region where the species approaches where I presently live (both to the south of where you found your specimens), have several species of Nerodia in stillwater habitats, however, sipedon is never one of them. In these regions they are pretty much only to be found in creeks and rivers. Also, the region in which I grew up would be considered an intergradation zone for sipedon. Here, pattern and color come in such variety that you can hike a stream and swear you've seen two or three species of snake when, in reality, you've seen but one. Thanks for sharing the pictures. Those were very robust animals.
>>
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0.1 Green Iguana (Sisco)
0.1 Rose Hair T (Sweets)
1.1.4 Hairless Rats (Socrates, The Three Stooges and Left Eye)
3.2 Ball Pythons (Stratos, She-Ra, Skeletor(0.1 oops on the name!), Sy-Cloone, Stinkor)
1.0 Striped Cal. King (Snuggles)

Temperment varies among individuals. Some seem fairly benign, others react to handling with astonishing savagery. The latter behavior can definitely include much biting or musk/feces slinging, or both. Perhaps up there it was still early enough in the year for cool weather to encourage the animals to be more sluggish?

It was early May, Mother's day actually. I live in IL now, in Lawrence County. I was wondering what time these snakes start going into brumation because I haven't found any in the last week. Thanks. -Joe

>>Temperment varies among individuals. Some seem fairly benign, others react to handling with astonishing savagery. The latter behavior can definitely include much biting or musk/feces slinging, or both. Perhaps up there it was still early enough in the year for cool weather to encourage the animals to be more sluggish?
-----
0.1 Green Iguana (Sisco)
0.1 Rose Hair T (Sweets)
1.1.4 Hairless Rats (Socrates, The Three Stooges and Left Eye)
3.2 Ball Pythons (Stratos, She-Ra, Skeletor(0.1 oops on the name!), Sy-Cloone, Stinkor)
1.0 Striped Cal. King (Snuggles)