Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all, I've had a long-term interest in the behavior of alterna in the wild (as I'm sure many of you do as well), and thought it might be really interesting to learn what people have observed in terms of field behavior. How many of you have collected alterna in the field (in places other than roadcuts or on roads), and in what circumstances (times of day, temperature, etc)? Has anyone had a fresh caught specimen regurgitate food where you could tell what they'd eaten?

I'll offer a couple of experiences to kick this off. I field collected one alterna in the Christmas Mountains. It was in the middle of one of the worst droughts on record in west Texas, temperatures in the daytime had been running between 115 and 120, and there was NOTHING on the roads. Collectors who were road cruising during the week before and after had found only 1-3 snakes a night and nothing much other than atrox and Hypsiglena. The snake I found was an adult female (light phase with large brilliant orange saddles and nice black alternates) about 4.5 feet off the ground crawling horizontally along the branch of a bush. The bush was immediately adjacent to a large boulder pile and right next to a particularly large boulder. The temperature was 90 degrees and the snake was particularly upset with me for catching her!

A second experience related to the black alterna that you can see in the photo I posted on the forum. It was from the Luna Vista hill in the Xmas Mtns, an AOR. I placed the snake in a bag and later, when taking it out found several regurgitated snake eggs of unknown species (they were the size and shape/appearance of alterna eggs though...).

I've heard all sorts of stories over the years on field collected alternas but seen precious few details that would help us learn more on their behavior. Can anyone add some data here? I'd love to learn more! Thanks everyone. This is a very cool forum.
Cheers,
Henry W.

Hey Henry, what time of the day or night did you field collect the alterna?
Later
Rick

I found the alterna in the branch at around 11pm. --Henry W.

Many years ago I collected a female alterna on FM 170 that several weeks after capture passed 7 eggshells in her feces. All eggshells had pip scars and surface granulations consistant with Masticophis or Bogertophis. I caught her in May. Considering the date, the eggs were most likely whipsnake eggs. It appeared as though she made a feast of recently vacated eggs.

I also collected a male in Brewster county that regurgitated a large adult male Cophosaurus the day following capture.

As far as field collection, I've found a number of critters "off the beaten path" over the years. All were found at night while walking with a flashlight. I've never managed to find one under cover, but never really put in too much early or late season effort either. I'd love to find one that way... someday.

Damon, what sort of settings and conditions were there for the alternas you found "off the beaten path?" Were most simply crawling along the ground or were some coiled and resting, active on rock outcrops, etc?

Also, and this is something I've wondered for years about, have you ever found a newborn or yearling? Very few newborns seem to be found on the roads and I am wondering if they are ever field collected and under what circumstances?

It is so difficult to get at the biology of this species we all love when we mainly find the animals while they are out doing one thing (presumably active during breeding season) and we see almost nothing else of their lives.

--Henry W.

Henry, ZEE collected two yearling females this year around Langtry on the cuts all in the same night.
Todd Hughes

Henry,
All of the alterna that I "field collected" were out crawling in a fashion I believe to be consistent with a foraging or reproductive endeavor. All were crawling very slowly and deliberately exhibiting that telltale back-and-forth head swing that I love so much. Some were on flat ground and a few were on the near vertical surfaces of natural limestone bluffs.

As far as hatchlings go, I can remember three off hand. Two were found in May and measured in the 9" range. Both of those were on roadcuts. I also once found an 8" male with a fresh umbilical scar in the road during mid-September.

Here are a few other cool anectdotes:

I once helped to locate a large alterna morph that had eluded the capture of a friend of mine. I helped look for the snake for the better part of 30 minutes. I finally found it, and a much smaller male, combating about 20 yards from where the first sighting of the larger male had occurred. That was fun to see.

-and-

In 1995, a friend and I found a very nice male north of Sanderson. We took photos of him and turned him loose right where we found him. Here's a shot of he and a fruiting Epithelantha:

The next night we found the same snake again. We took more photos just to document the recapture and then released the animal again. 3 nights later my friend found the snake again! Long story short... over the five nights that encompassed the encounters, the 18" male traveled .5 miles (as the crow flies) from where we initially found him. To my knowledge no one ever collected him. Every time I pass that spot I think of that little guy and wonder where he is.

I caught a Pepper's Hill alterna 1/4 mile from the road on top of a hill next to a canyon at 0100. The snake was crawling very slowly. I caught a alterna on top of Blairs hill that regurgitated a silky hair pocket mouse. I also know of 2 alterna collected in the morning by Mike Stewart on the hill south of the Shumla Rest area in May.Both snakes were under dead sotol. It had rained the night before.

Two of the first three alterna ever found were found during daylight hours in fissures Murray 1939 and Smith 1942.

Since 1942 only a handful of alterna have been collected during daylight hours. Personally I have found three in the morning while the sun was up and several more during "twilight" before the sun set proper.

In one instance I was heading home from Sheffield a little after 8 am and the sky was black towards the east. Huge thunderstorm maybe 30-40 miles east of Sheffield. I found an alterna crossing the big hill by the rest area there that morning.

In 1980 Keith Amelung and I pulled an all nighter and hunted 349 all night. When the sun came up we headed east and stopped at the long cut on the north side of the road near Prairie Creek (8 miles east of Dryden). I was shining a penlight flashlight into the fissures and located a hatchling alterna phase at 8 am.

In November 2003 I was hiking on my property in southern Brewster county and observed a talus pile with rocks that look very inviting, much like the "pyro piles" of Retes lore. I had just returned from Durango Mexico two months prior and found two male greeri in a very similar situation. The night time lows were in the upper 30's and daytime highs were in the low 80's. The talus was in direct sun. The first fist sized rock I picked up revealed the loop of an alterna sticking up.

I know Brain Hubbs flipped an alterna in late april south of alpine under a large rock, and Eric Timaeus son flipped an adult female under a large rock at the railroad tracks on the langtry dirt. Several more folks have located alterna under rocks that I am aware of but they escape me at the moment.

Several alterna have been captured as they attemped to swallow prey. Gerry Salmon and John Hollister found one north of Sanderson attemping to eat a Sceloperus pointsetti. One alterna regurged a canyon Tree Frog, several DOR's have been found with cophosaurus in the gut in the Big Bend region, and S. merriami near Langtry and Sanderson.

Field collecting with a flashlight on foot is far more common. A number of herpers have taken to foot for many years myself included. I have notes on an (ungodly number) of alterna taken on 118, Sanderson, Juno and 277 on foot with a flashlight.

Finding hatchling alterna is a little less common. I've found at least three off the top of my head. One crossing Juno at night, the one east of Dryden at 8 am, and one north of Sanderson at 5:05 am (that was a long night).

I'm sure our readers can add to that if they see fit.

Forks

Lizard eggs (Miller)
Sceloporus undulatus (Mecham and Milstead)
Sceloporus poinsetti (Murray)
regurged snake eggs (Switak)
A. septemvittatus (Degenhardt)
Cophosaurus texanus Degenhardt)
Pocket Mouse, Perognathus (Tennant)
Sceloporus merriami (Miller)

>>In 1980 Keith Amelung and I pulled an all nighter

That should read 1989, not 1980.....

I was aware of the literature records (you have no idea how much time I spent perusing every scrap of info on these beasts when I started out!), but knew there had to be some great info out there from all of the people who've devoted their hearts and sole to these beasts. I wasn't mistaken! This is really great stuff, you guys. I guess a lot of this might be common lore among all of you who've been keeping at it while I've been buried away doing archaeology so if that's the case, my apologies for asking you to repeat what everyone but me knows. Anyway, THANK YOU for the very cool info. Anyone else want to add their experiences?
Cheers,
Henry W.

PS: its been very nice herp weather here in Tucson - warm, humid, thunderstorms. I've seen a Gila, a L. G. splendida/yumensis, several atrox, and a zillion geckos the past 7 days just in my small residential development while I've been ferrying kids to after school activities and taking out the trash. Now, if we only had alternas here....

Henry,
I have done a fair amount of walking with a high quality coon-hunters 17/18 volt battery pack & headlamp apparatus similiar to what coal miners wear. I have had success seeing alterna, at least 8 crawling on the ground both on top of road cuts & between road cuts & the highway pavements. I was with Damon Salceies late one night & around 2:30am, as we were walking on a hillside, we both spotted a 28"+ alterna at the same time, as it was slowly crawling along, looking for food most likely, as it was in early July. Another time, North of Sanderson on top of 9 mile hill, in June of 97, at 9:18pm, while still twilight out, I was searching the top of that hill & witnessed a 22" female blairs that bolted thru grass the second my light illuminated it & I literally dived at it & secured it just as it was entering a rodent hole, that was no doubt its escape safe haven it was headed for. Like Dan stated, its probably more productive to look on or near roadcuts for alterna, but it is a real treat to see them on the ground, or on a boulder, away from manmade roads or cuts. It simply takes persistence & patience to find them walking off the beaten path. I always wear steel toed leather safety boots & plastic chaps around my calves so I don't have to worry much about stepping on venemous snakes & if a person walks areas away from the roads or tops of cuts & hillsides, you will encounter them, I have many times, just never stepped on one yet...Seeing an alterna in the wild is something I think I will never tire of seeing...my thoughts...John F.

>>while I've been buried away doing archaeology

Henry,
If I could take you off topic a bit, tell us what you've been up to in the way of archeology! There's more than a few here interested I bet.

Best
Joe

Hey Joe, that is a bit OT but I'm happy to reply. I'm currently finishing up a book on the excavations I directed at a large prehistoric village that was located where I-10 and I-19 come together in southern Tucson. We dug about a 100 prehistoric house foundations there, along with an array of cooking pits, trash middens, burials, etc. Many, many thousands of artifacts etc. The site was used from about 400 BC to 1125 AD. I'm also trying to finish 4 research papers, an edited volume on the archaeology of SE Arizona, and have been helping the city of Oro Valley save a very large prehistoric village and turn it into a town park. Of course all this is why I haven't had much time for hunting alterna. But life is too short and the alternas are waiting! One way or another, I will get back to Texas this Fall or next spring/summer! I hope to meet up with you guys there and swap stories.
Cheers,
Henry W.

PS. THANKS EVERYONE for the great stories on your field collecting finds. This is great stuff.

I've spent a considerable amount of time looking for alterna under rocks during the day. Looked in Val Verde, Black Gap and Alpine. Managed to collect one in Val Verde County. This snake was collected in March under a 12" diameter rock a day after a half inch of rain fell.

Also spent lots of time walking at night with battery pack and spotlight in habitat well away from the roadside. Thirty days of this effort in Black Gap yielded two specimens. It just so happens that the first of the two eventually turned out to be heterozygous for anerythristic and the second turned out to be heterozygous for hypomelanism... Also spent about 30 days walking in habitat in New Mexico. That effort turned up zero alterna. My conclusion after all of this effort is that it's more productive to hunt the roadside cuts. But, I would say it's the most pleasant form of collecting.

Of the four alterna I collected in the Huecos, three of them were basically hatchlings. Two were 13" and the third was 15".