Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Thank you to the possibly two of you who answered my question helpfully.

There is vegetarian cat food. Google it.

With the science we have today we will have vegetarian snake food within years. Get over it.

Why are you all so angry?

Part of the issue is that there are people who seem to get upset over questions perceived as 'stupid'. These are questions like, 'Can my cornsnake and ball python live together in the same cage?', where knowing a generic amount of information and using a little common sense would give you the answer. That having been said, sometimes people fail to put two and two together, and I personally would rather see the person ask the question than try and guess and possibly get that answer wrong, endangering the snake's health.

The other part of the issue is the stereotype of vegetarians as insane anti-animals-as-pets-food-or-other-products nature wacko nutsos. PETA and ALF style groups and the insane extremes to which they take things are mostly to blame for the existence of the stereotype. Since both PETA and ALF would like nothing better than to see the pet trade abolished, there's alot of hostility involved when someone is perceived to be a PETA-nut. With the stereotype that all vegetarians are PETA-nuts-in-training, it's not surprising you got a hostile resposne from some people.

And, I say this at the risk of seeming angry to you, but PETA is definitely an organization of true wackos and extremists. I can provide PLENTY of examples of 'stupid PETA tricks', as I like to call them.

-Kat
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"You keep WHAT in your freezer?"
"Mice. And rats. If that bothers you, I can call them 'cows' instead."

The way I feel about it is this...nature made animals a certain way. What they are supposed to eat is what they are supposed to eat because nature designed it that way. Forcing an animal to eat something that its body is not designed to process,for your own selfish reasons, is wrong. Plain and simple.

Thank you, seriously.

I am a vegetarian, but I, along with you, disagree with a lot of PETA's actions.

I don't have a snake, and I have no problem feeding frozen mice to them. I just wanted to know beforehand if there was any alternative.

My viewpoint on it (since I've been called selfish several times) is simply that if I could avoid the death of several creatures that are bred only to be fed I would. I'm sorry if that is selfish, but all pet ownership is selfish. We get pets to get something back.

Thank you to the very few of you who answered my question without being accusatory. The rest of you should be more careful, you're going to end up chasing people away that you might have been able to help.

>>Thank you to the possibly two of you who answered my question helpfully.
>>
>>There is vegetarian cat food. Google it.
>>
>>With the science we have today we will have vegetarian snake food within years. Get over it.
>>
>>Why are you all so angry?

Yes they have vegetarian cat food and dog food.
BUT studies have shown that these are unhealthy.
I will try my best to find the web page that had test information but for the most part it stated, as people did below, that carnivours such as dogs and cats need meat not just supplements and substitutes to remain healthy for a lifetime.

Corn snakes eat live food (meat) rodents.
This is their staple diet.
This is what their bodies are designed to process. been that way for 50000 years.
That's the way it is.
The simple question is....Why would you want to change this?
Or why would you want to change a dog or cat's natural diet?
Would you want to compromise their health for your own personal beliefs?

You wrote
QUOTE "With the science we have today we will have vegetarian snake food within years. Get over it."

well guess what..dogs and cats are carnivours
corn snakes eat mice
GET OVER IT

if you want a vegetarian get an iguana
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

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or a bearded dragon, there vege's aswell (or later on anyway)
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mother to ,1 female great plains rat snake - "rockey". 1 male amel corn - "SN4". 1 female bairds rat snake - "copper". 1 female normal ball - "queenie". Pair albino striped king snakes - "tom and jenny". 1 male normal Cali. king - "wallace". 1 male pet rat - "rax". 4 cockateils, 3F, 1M, - "squeak, arnold, piere, peppy". 1 female rock pebbler - "fudge". 2 female roborovski hamsters - "speedy and sprite". 2 Florida Cooters - "tiny and titch". 1 male African Grey Parrot - "george". 1 Red Naped Conure - "jake", and finally 1 female german shepard - "roxy"

you tell it, i have seen people get iguanas, and feed them dog food iguanas who are fed "meat" diets grow fast but die quicker to kidney failure, i have 4 different examples of this kind of improper herp keeping......
one iguana i just lost last week to kidney failure, he was five yrs old had been fed raw hamburger meat before he came here a month ago, they never told me he was going through kidney failure, i found out when he became sick and i rushed him to the vet...3 weeks after i got him, 750 dollars later he died.
another example, i lost 2 juvenile igs several months ago to mbd because they werent fed a proper diet.........
but here is the kicker, i have an 8 yr old ig here who i have had for 5 years, he developed mbd at 2 yrs of age, he has been fine up til last week took him to the vet, alls i was told was i have had him with mbd for 5 yrs and he has done ok..... if he doesnt get better when he comes back from the vet i will be considering putting him down.
what im stating here is if someone is dead set on feeding a strict vegan diet then reconsider your choice of a snake and get an ig..........
i keep rats and snakes, i love my rats and enjoy my snakes, but i have enough knowledge to know what my snakes need to be kept healthy, as well as my rats get cooked chicken.

Raisnok I keep corns and rats too. My 2 favorite creatures on earth. Rats satisfy the part of me that enjoys furry cuteness and the ability to show affection, while the corns are long-lived, display gorgeous colors and are a joy to share housespace with. I cant bear to feed rats to my corns though, they get frozen/thawed mice!

well i do feed my corn frozen rats i either buy them packaged or i have a friend who does her own, one of the reasons i chosed to use rats though was i also have a ball python, and started buying the rats before i got him, i wanted to be prepared...LOL... but i had ran out of the mice for the corns and used some of the rat pinks....... i love my herps, i also love my rats, ferrets and sugar glider.........my sugar glider also eats pinky mice......

well said draybar, also i think if you are so concerned with not letting your snake eat cute fuzzies than you shouldnt have a snake and should stop making topics about veg snake food, its not going to happen and if it did it would do nothing but hurt snakes and then mice would be illegal like in europe.
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jake

my addiction:
2 normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
1 amelenistic corn snake (mazy)

Sorry...I'm in school to be a vet, I have to put my thoughts in this one! Some people put their dogs/cats on a no meat diet because their pet is allergic to meat. I worked with a toy poodle once who was allergic to meat, she could only eat a certain kind of food, can't remember the name (this was about 7 yrs ago), or her owner would cook her food. The dog was on special supplements and ate other foods high in protein as dogs are carnivores, not omnivores as some people think, (do wolves eat veggies in the wild? nope.) and need a certain amount of protein in their diet.

You knew when you bought the snake that it ate mice right? Why in the hell would you try and make it a vegetarian? It is not you and does not diet like you, hell people arent vegetarians either and not to have meat is unhealthy and down right un american. If you dont like the fact that your snake eats mice get rid of it, simplke as that.

KEN
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0.1 Albino Cal. King (Fokker)
0.1 Reverse Okeetee Corn (trouble)

0.0.1 Anery (Thanks Jimmy)(Sam Wise)
2.2 Dogs(2 Boxers, Cookie and Joe, Lhasa Apso, George, pik ahpso, Gizzy Gumdrop)
0.1 Wife
0.1 Kid

Reread her/his original post,,,This person said nothing of not feeding thier snake mice, in fact they never even said they had one..It was just a simple question about food options...
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i understand that, but still the whole point is why consider getting a snake if you dont plan on feeding it the proper diet, it was stated down below about the snake steaks if a person was squeamish about feeding mice........thats an alternative..... to try to feed it something way out of its specific needs is different.
as i stated in my earlyier post about the iguanas.... we can go to ferrets, their systems can not handle vegetable matter, any vegetable matter you feed them comes out as vegetable matter, the have to have a meat based diet...... snakes would be the same way.
or we could look at this way, does any one here think there are any snakes out in the wild who are refuse to eat prey animals and instead are eating fruits and vegetables because they feel bad for killing mice? i honestly dont think so....

i have heard it is "cruel to feed snakes prey animals"
well in my opinion it is cruel to change a snakes (or any other animals) diet to suit ones belief.

I'm a Vegetarian and I'm still an American. Geesh!!!! People these days! Also I have 3 pet mice (which I love) and I have a baby corn (which I love just as much) which I feed F/T pinkies because I know that in order for something to live something else must be sacrificed whether it be an animal or a plant because plants die so that we can live too.

of course the american joke was in gest. However maybe since you actually have a level head on your shoulders when talking about feeding snakes their prey maybe you can explain better on why it is neccasary NOT to change the snakes diet just because you eat veggies.

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1.0 Uromastyx
0.0.1 Sulcatta totoise
0.1 Leos
2.2 Corn snakes
0.0.1 Childrens python
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow boa
1.0 Rat (as pet not food)
2.2 Ball pythons (1pastel 2 normals)
2.1.1 crested geckos

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signature file edited. [phw 10/23/04]

Cats and dogs naturaly chew leaves and grass
but do you see a snake do that.

Paul..

Sorry its not a cornsnake.

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Pinky's taste nice,only if there fresh..

no its not a corn, but you made a good piont.

dogs ang cats chew on grass,... kingsnakes chew on fingers
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jake

my addiction:
2 normal ball pythons (lazlo and izzy)
1 amelenistic corn snake (mazy)

thats a pretty snake!!!!!!!!!!!! what morph?

........get over it.........

remember it's "cats" the other white meat too........?

........

you people are funny..........let it live.......let it live..don't eat meat.......ok........

got a spider in the shower with you?.you flushed it didn't you.........you killed.......

got mice in the pantry?.....you killed them too I bet.....

killing is natural.........and we rule the world only because we eat meat........

.
.
.anyways........think I'll go get a hot dog......I don't think there is actually meat in them anyways.....ok?

.
.
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...........once upon a time......far.....far away......there was a man.....named Umbuju.......and he had a stick.............

hmmm....cheeseburger......
LOL
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**Am I the only one that gets frustrated when I cant find just plain old white paper towels?? I dont want any dorky lookin flowers in my snake or dragon cages! Its the little things in life that bother me....**

1.1 Bearded Dragons - Chong & Cheech
0.1 Anery Motley Corn - Fluffy
0.2 Labradors - Booger, Maggie
0.1 Cat - Hardcore

If they ever create vegetarian snake food that's as good for the snake as whole animals, I will be truly astounded. The goal of sending a manned mission to Mars with a safe return is far more plausible in my mind. Maybe in 20 yrs they'll be able to culture animal protein in vats or something so mice won't have to kick the bucket, (I read too much Sci Fi) but that would still technically be animal protein and not vegetarian.

Get over it? There's nothing to get over. Snakes can't eat veggies. Not tofu, not soy, and for vegetarian options, they can't handle milk or cheese either. There is a species or two specializing in eggs, but that's a notable exception. And eggs near term have a lot of meat in them anyway.

The reasons we're angry (occasionally unjustly directed your way) are these.
1. Animal Rightists (much different from Animal Welfarists) hate our guts and want to stop us from keeping snakes. Without any regard for the animal's welfare, nor ours. We, therefore hate their guts. Many of us equate vegetarians with animal rightists. (unjust to many innocent vegetarians, but there is a statistical correlation)
2. Many of us have seen poorly treated animals, and not often with snakes, but many lizards are horribly malnourished by ignorant or negligent keepers feeding dogfood or lettuce. Feeding an animal a terribly unhealthy diet it is not meant to have, is yet another sore spot with many keepers.
3. A lot of people freak out over our animals eating cute food, thinking that we and the snakes are equally cruel and vicious for killing the little mousies. Or bunnies. So we tend to be defensive and somewhat hissy about it. I've kept mice as pets and they are lovely sweet little animals (no, they did not end up as snakefood), but I will not deny my kingsnake what she needs to stay healthy.

I don't know the reasons behind your question, but I hope this helps with why we somewhat hit the roof over it.
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0.1 chickens (Condor)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

Various kinds of land turtles and tortoises naturally only eat veggies, and are kept at their best health that way. Planning a healthy balanced diet for them is a little challenging, but they're very personable creatures. (Assuming you're a vegetarian, you can buy extra and share )

I've heard that Crested Geckos (adorable, docile and nice sized) do well on a particular premanufactured diet, even without crickets. Though they're naturally omnivorous and I strongly recommend checking in that forum to be sure.

If you're willing to raise a 5-6 ft long lizard, there's of course the green iguana. Takes a lot of dedication and $$$ to care for, but they only eat veggies. And they're commonly available at reptile rescues.

And the only long and wiggly vegetarian critter I can think of, are millipedes. Not reptiles, but still... If you're ok keeping a big bug or two as pets, they're quite docile, feel neat when walking and I frankly think they're cute as heck.
Hope this points you in a direction you like.
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0.1 chickens (Condor)
0.2 dog mutts (half ownership, only mine when they misbehave, Lucy & Amy)
0.1 Halflinger horse (Crissy)
0.1 Normal phase California Kingsnake (Sophia)
1.1 parents
Still searching for 1.0 WC human

There is a vegetarian cat food.

It is endorsed by the UK vegetarian society and no one else.

Until it is endorsed by the UK veterinary society, CVMA or AVMA, it will not be a suitable diet as recognized by the educated public.

I have no doubt that modern science will eventually create a food refined for any species in a manner where no animal matter is needed. There is obviously a demand for the product.

Without adding any more bias to my response I'll end it here.

Ian

>>With the science we have today we will have vegetarian snake food within years. Get over it.

First, there already is a vegetarian snake food. My mice only eat non-meat food items, so they are vegetarians. I feed those vegetarian mice to my snakes, so they are vegetarian snake food.

Second, producing something from plant matter than can be digested from snakes is one thing. Tricking snakes to eat it is another!

Third, you'd still use petroleum products (which come from aniamls) to produce it, so you are still relying on animals in one manner or another to feed your snakes.

I like vegetarians. I want MORE vegetarians in the world. They help keep the cost of my steaks lower when I buy them at the grocery store. What I don't understand, though, is why the drive to force an animal evolved to eat meat into something less optimal for it? That's cruelty to animals in my book.

KJ