Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Help with ants. I want to know if either of these ants are ok for dhl.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/theunknownthem/aqueductants.jpg
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b356/theunknownthem/poppyants2.jpg
My hl is a rescue and I am trying to get it to start eating.It is barely looking at these ants or mealworms. It had two mealworms three days ago and won't even look at food anymore. Any advice? Thanks

Those should both be good. The red are pogonomyrmex californicus and the darker ones are p. rugosus. He will probably prefer the californicus over the other.
Try letting him warm up in the sun about 9am for at least 30 minutes and then drop just a couple in with him. Try not to stress or frighten him during the process.
As you can see from the previous post, once they reach a certain stage of demise they are nearly impossible to bring back.
Good luck and good job at least with the attempted rescue.
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Phrynosoma.Com

We're still trying to save him, not giving up on him. He will still drink water from dropper, when he's being misted, and when he is being bathed in warm water. He's still resposive to heat and will thermoregulate. He headbobed unexpectedly while outside basking yesterday. His stool has become just the white part and has gone twice since Tuesday.

I picked up about 20 of those first ants to see if he would respond to them. I released one for him but he wouldn't open his eyes for more than a couple of seconds and seemed to have no interest in the ant. He did eat when we picked him up almost four days ago. He eagerly ate two mealworms and attempted to eat more but has shown no interest in food since.

We're looking at a couple of products and wanting to know if anyone has tried them or has any thoughts about using them.
Repta Aid
Electrod3ze

Sorry if I have too much information posted, I'm just trying to put everything that could help possibly diagnose/help him. Cable has seen how skinny he is, he's deathly thin. We picked him up about four days ago and trying to bring him back to health.
Any thoughts or tips will be appreciated
Thank you

I think temps are really imortant if he's sick. Make sure his temps are 10005 or so on the hot side and 85 degrees on the other, also keep hinm warm at night so it doesn't get too cool. Cable has it right, get him out in the sun so he can get some natural sun, also put the ants in the fridge for 15 minutes os to slow them down so he may be able to eat them easier, the other thing is go to the pet store get some small crickets 1/4 nad take there back legs off and when he is nice and warm put the cricket on the end of a broom straw or a very thin piece of metal like a straw and wiglle the cricket by his face and see if he won't try it. Go easy on wattering or soaking him, juest get him warmed and see if he will eat, try and not handle him anymore than you have too, if he absolutely won't eat - I think time is of the essance, and unfortunately when they stop eating it is a serious and hard thing to get them back to eating....a last ditch thing which is vewry stressfull is to get a very dull pocket knife of butter knife and slip it gently on the side of the mouth and open it and stick in a cricket and just hold him and see if he will chomp down on it and hold it. IF he rejects it twice or so then it's not worth the effort and stress to the lizard, but I would do that at last ditch. Lets do as Cable has said get him out in the natural sun, and get him well warmed up and see what happens, but sometimes they will take a small cricket when they won't take an ant, forget the mealworms as they have hard exoskeletons and are hard to digest, being sick I would work with a small soft cricket or ants but it doesn't sound good. Especially if he's acting droppy and lethergic.........
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

We have been taking him out, but the highs are only in the low 70's so we've been sitting him on a heating pad while we are out with him. His temperature in the cage stays around 95 during the day to about 88 at night. He's currently in a 10 gallon but if he needs higher temps I'm going to have to go buy a bigger lamp. I did refrigerate the ants till most of them became little balls. I set out a slow ant for him. It crawled up on him twice before I knocked it off and the lizard still wouldnt open it's eyes. I'll try the cricket thing. What do you think about the appetite enhancers or that Rescue stuff that I had in the previous post? This guy needs to start eating. We tried putting little peices of lettuce in his cage last night and he would crawl out and lay on a peice, so we put another peice and he crawled a little further out to lay on it too. We've been giving him plenty of water and he's been drinking a lot of it. He seems dehydrated which seems to be a factor of them eating and has been the problem in several other posts. I was hoping that when he feels he has enough water he would attempt to eat again. He just stopped eating after the move. If he was a little plump I might let it ride out a couple of days and see if he adjusts, but he is too emanciated to let do that. I've been hoping that he isn't trying to go into hibernation as skinny as he is. Is that possible?
Thank you

Well you might try one of those enhancers, I have never used them, someone used them in a previous post and I think his animal dies anyway. Since I haven't seen you animal my comment sare that you could very well be right on the money about being dehydrated, so disrgard what I said earlier, I just thoink you need to have a balance between the stress of being handled and the help your giving him, maybe noit soak him but if he takes wwater then let him go for it. Of course! ALso I am not saying to go buy a new light bulb but if you think about it the desert temps during the day is 90-100 degrees sometimes even hotter, and while they don't stay in direct sunlight the ground temps can be as hiogh as 120 degrees, so i like to think the hot side basking spot should be 105 or so. Just my opinion. When they start going down it really is hard to turn them around, but give the circkets a try, if it's in the 70's thats not very high, I believe they have to have a much higher body temp before they will start to eat. I hope the crickets will help, I have turned a few around using crikets. Honestly sometimes when even the temps don't affect there activity much, I then consider it to be a real problem. YOur lizard does not need to be hibernated, but they do start going down about this time of year. If he looks ematiated I wouldn't put him down until he he is back to normal and eating good. Keep the temps up. If you could post a picture we might get a better feel, listen I have never used the sper juice before, I know lots of snake people that use it, you might try it, but be careful if you do as to how much...read the posts below about lizard dying and coming back........ I really would love to see one of these sick guys turn around. We have had a rash of them die lately. YOu said this was a rescue? From where?
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

There was a couple in Santa Monica that had him. They didn't know much about hl's. They decided to give it away because they were having trouble keeping ants alive. Turns out they had one die about a month ago. We were wondering if he might have stopped eating because of sorrow and lonliness. The baths are the only time he seems awake and we thought that was a good thing. We are keeping the heat in the 90's during the day and high 80's at night. I know he dosn't need to hibernate but I'm not sure if he is trying to anyway or if he is just that week. We got the Nature Zone appetite plus and he has been on it for 3 days at two drops a day but he still hasnt eaten. I still don't understand because he ate the two mealworms the first day we had him. I will post the pics but they are very sad to see him in this condition. I don't want to be flamed from anyone because we recieved him in this condition.What is sper juice?

HL's may hang out together in an enclosure, but in nature they are for the most part loners and don't seem to miss each other, except when mating season comes around.
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Phrynosoma.Com

Looking to boost the uv rays for the hl since it is too cold outside for him to bask. Currently he has a 15 inch ESU Super UV Daylight flourescent. It was given to us when we picked up the lizard and I'm not sure how old it is. I have an older fixture for incandescent lights that is currently empty. It can hold two incandescent 40 watt tube lights. I have been looking for uv outputs of incandescent day bulbs but can't find any. Does anyone know where to find them listed or know what some of them are? The local stores are only carrying 18 inch flourescent bulbs so I want to know if incandescents would be fine.
Thanks

Kieth-tey home depot, they have all kinds of fixtures, I think you can find what you need. By the way your right on the money about the wieght and all, he does look ematiated, I did notice his eyes as being open and clear so inspite of his poor shape it may be possible to turn him around. Have you tried crickets yet? Also I think he is weak and I don't think necessarily hibernation is the issue. He does have a bueatiful color, it's a shame people let these lizards get to this point. I give you kudois for all the effort your putting into this guy!! Just keeping him hydrated and trying to get him to eat are the two things now. I think there isn't a whole much more that can be done. I am sorry about Sper JUice, I ment to write super juice refering to the stuff you have been using for the last few days. By the way does he just lay on top of the substrate at night, or does he try and bury himself? I'm thinking you may need to try those crikets quickly and if he won't eat on his own you may have to try and use the butter knife or dull pocket knife to open the mouth (from the side and put in a criket)--Cable do you have anything else to suggest?? Here is my over all feeling at the momnent after seeing his picture I am thinking that if he is weak and you haven't seen an improvement with what you have tried to do so far, then every day he is loosing his will due to weakness etc. I am thinking that the mealworms may have been hard on his stomack, buit don't know for sure. Is he going to the bathroom? Let me know. I don't know how else to help at this moment.........
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Phrynosoma.com

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signature file edited. [phw 11/14/04]

Alright, I looked on their website and it seems that near all their fixtures are 4 foot long. I would just need an 18" because I can't find bulbs for this 15". Those pictures were the day after we got him and the his first time outside. Other than that his eyes tend to be closed. We started yesterday on a liquid diet that he drank up so we havn't tried crickets, but he was moving around a bit more last night. I'm waiting for him to warm up and come out this morning. He has been laying on the surface or on the rock. I've kept his cage 86-88 at night. The mealworms might have been. He's gone twice but the first time it was mostly the white stuff and the second time it was only white.