Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I send the lad, I mean Lat, the freeking file & he just posts the pics! HaHa...I guess the poor boy is as technologically challenged as I am...I dont for instance understand why that coachwhip doesnt fully load in this mode...???

anyway...heres what he was supposed to post...zzzzz

Heres athe results of a fun trip Brett Daniels & I made down to the border area...after the rest of our team chickened out on the great 2005 mexican-madrean...sojourn...we also tag teamed this post w/ Brett doing the jpg loading...me taking care of most of this txt.

9.1.05; Lateralis & I depart for the frontera arriving in the first madrean area @ ~ 1900. Conditions are perfect but wind is steadily increasing to gusty...floral conditions look green & optimal.

First spot is a good one....one that I completely missed; a juvenile tiger @ 4000' & 2000 hrs.

#2 is an adult atrox @ ~ 2500' & 2100 hrs.

#3 is a neonate atrox [DoR] @ ~ 2500' & 2110 hrs.

#4 is an adult pituophis @ ~ 5750' & 2150 hrs.

#5 is a young adult molossus @ ~ 6000' & 2200 hrs.

Strong wind, cooling T, crew fatigue & perhaps 1 too many brews...for Gunn... cause a 2230 flame-out.

9.2.05;

Dawn cruise reveals no late night DoR's or torpid live snakes on the road. We did find 2 DoR molossus that we missed the previous night, one of which was quite aged & not computed into the trip summary statistic.
The other is entered below.

#1 is a previous days adult molossus [DoR] @ ~ 3500'.

#2 is a sub-adult female tortuga [DoR] on SR 86 @ ~ 2950' & 0800 hrs. Who can be so dim as to miss seeing a freeking tuga on a blacktop rd???

#3 is an adult Salvadora (grahamiae?) [DoR] on the Ruby rd. @ ~ 4750' & 12:00 hrs.

#4 is an adult Masticophis dying [DoR] on the Madera rd. @ ~ 3250' & 17:00 hrs.

#5 is a young adult molossus on the Madera rd. @ ~ 4000' & 19:00 hrs.

Multiple passes until 2230 on the xy canyon Rd. reveal nothing despite perfect conditions, few rodents in evidence either??? Cooling T, fatigue, & copious brews cause a 2230 cessation. Perhaps we should have stayed out later or shifted to the observatory rd...?

9.3.05

AM dawns pleasant and fully overcast, ~ 72-75*, am cruise reveals no late night DoR's nor torpid live snakes on the road or its perfect sidecuts. We move over to the Huachucas & see nada on the hiway enroute.

Hike Ramsey canyon that AM, find Yarrows abundant on the talus slides, conditions are perfect; first sun splashes....one lepidus shed discovered in a crevice.

Drive xx canyon early afternoon;

#1 is a neonate Son Whip [DoR] at a possible elev record of on the xx canyon rd. & 14:00 hrs.

We drift over to other areas of the Huachucas that late afternoon; very nice habitat conditions, lateral rds look very good too, we also worked south on the Canelo Hills Rd after dark. ...surprisingly little was to be seen, few rodents in evidence either???

#2 is a young adult Blk-neck garter on the xy rd. near the w. boundary, @ ~ 5000' & 17:00 hrs. [jpg'd]. Head about a molossus from folks at the w boundary.

#3 is a beautiful dark splendida [DoR] at a possible elev record of 5150' [coords: 31,57',51" x 110,39',0"] on SR 83 ~ 5 mi. S of Sonoita @ 20:30 hrs.

Nothing of note seen on our run over to Nogales & west; the paved portion of the xx Rd yeilded nothing, camped @ the lake overlook w/ the jaguar scrape! [jpg'd]. Again we give in to the cramps & fatigue by 22:30 hrs.

9.4.05

AM dawns pleasant and clear, ~ 72-75*, am cruise reveals no late night DoR's nor torpid live snakes on the xx Rd. nor the sidecuts.

#1 is a young Son whipsnake in the ditch, @ ~ 4750' & 10:00 hrs. Escapes easily!

#2 is a young adult Blk-neck garter fd hiking up a lateral drainage, @ ~ 5000' & 11:00 hrs.

#3 is an adult Son whipsnake in the ditch, @ ~ 4750' & 14:00 hrs. Escapes easily!

Arrive in Mesa by 17:00 hrs., Poor Lat-man has another 4.5 hrs pull on I-10 west to get home....damnit.

Trip Stats:

~ 815 miles of Az travel w/ 37.5 g of fuel [gas mileage was way down on the mtn dirt roads!].

~ 465 non-inter-state miles yield ~ 15 noteworthy herps, representing 10 spps.; ~ 31 mi/herp.

~ 3 miles & 3-4 hrs hiking = 3 noteworthy herps [including the shed!] representing 3 spps.; ~ 1hr/herp.

Comments:

Lack of DoR's on 2 lane highways & back roads; probably indicates a general lack of surface movement in addition to generally supressed populations adjacent to well traveled roads.
2 DoR's retained for feeders.
Mid-day road cruising & driving higher elevation woodlands after dark seemed particularly non-productive (as usual). We should have done less of this & more canyon hiking.
A small # of surface debris items were lifted for examination; nothing was found using this method.
Several other apparent herp hunters & deer scouts were encountered, fewer border patrols than most trips, one "Game Ranger" was spotted on the highway [Hiya Joe S. ]!
2 other collectors talked to were reporting less luck than we.
Few Cnemis were in evidence anywhere, many, many small insects were observed, thus the food web has a solid base. Significant recent ppt in most places, range/floral conditions were generally good except for the abundant exotic lehmans lovegrass. Took a gr8t jpg of a roadside edge comprised of a pure stand of native grasses (w/ no bufflegrass in sight) and then a near mono-culture of exotic Lehmans Lovegrass running back past the RoW fence into the mesquites flats beyond.
A Papago ranger, 1 cranky rancher [Sonny] & a crazy kamikaze dirt biker made us joke, smile, & curse!
Dr Spec was dodging & weaving w/ the best of them...damn them all...
We hope that Matt fellow got lucky...he met an elderly Indian woman in 3-points...we also hope his wife/grlfren doesnt follow these forums...mebbe he'll post a jpg....LoL...LoL!
The usual chigger bites & pollen allergies make me wonder if Iitoi or any other god... has any sense of decency...aarrgghhhh...."Dr Cerastes" feels abandoned by his Santeria gods as well, Chango where were you in his hour of need!

Cheers n Beers....Lateralis n' RxR

Seems like conditions weren't exactly optimal though. I've had lots of really slow nights in Pima Co, myself. It can get pretty chilly at those higher ele.

I think s. AZ ended up getting quite a bit of precip in August after a very dry early summer too. 'Course it needed it after the fires. But I think sometimes there's just too much rain and the soil is actually overly saturated.

Overall, you guys saw quite a bit of stuff. Lots of good info and some neat pix. Thanks

ratman

Thnx & I agree w/ your comments...we busted our humps to see what we did...the first 1.5 hrs was fabulous & then we executed our plan...instead of staying put! We also would have been on Hopkins instead of Madera...but yours truly missed the freeking exit....& a green rat was fd. that nite...dangit..
Hey that king you just posted...does it have side speckling (splendida) or faint rings like a nigritus/yumensis intergrade would....if you have other jpgs of the ventral...please post em

Beers...RxR

Posted by: ratsnakehaven at Sat Sep 10 09:13:33 2005 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Seems like conditions weren't exactly optimal though. I've had lots of really slow nights in Pima Co, myself. It can get pretty chilly at those higher ele.

I think s. AZ ended up getting quite a bit of precip in August after a very dry early summer too. 'Course it needed it after the fires. But I think sometimes there's just too much rain and the soil is actually overly saturated.

Overall, you guys saw quite a bit of stuff. Lots of good info and some neat pix. Thanks

ratman

>>Hey that king you just posted...does it have side speckling (splendida) or faint rings like a nigritus/yumensis intergrade would....if you have other jpgs of the ventral...please post em
>>
>>Beers...RxR

Well, I don't have a ventral view of that particular snake, but I believe it's the splendida form with side speckling, but the banding is very narrow, only one scale row wide. That is fairly typical of these snakes, btw. I've seen several like that. We even kept one from this trip. I believe the ventrum had lots of black, but some speckling...

The juvies generally look a lot different with a lot more light coloration. Here's another DOR from the same night just down the road a little. I believe this is a yearling...

This is a ventral view of the same snake...

I think most of the kings in the Santa Cruz Valley are intergrades bt. splendida and nigritus. Although some nearly pure black individuals have been found, I don't think there are any pure nigritus on the American side of the border.

Desert Rat
-----
Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

Thnx for the additional views TC, that 1st one looks to me like a nig/yuma intergrade, the 2nd...more to the splendid side. I havent seen that many from your area, but id does seem to be the crossroads for the 3 subspps. I have also seen a few getulus from sw Phx & furthur sw along the rio gila look alot like your 1st one...
Interestingly, the few getulus Ive seen from around Safford are strongly Cali types, while 30 mi s at the Bowie area theyre strongly splendid looking...????
Heres a classic looking cali from 35 mi N of Phx????

Yes, it is interesting that there's all that variation. That's a cool looking Cal king you showed, btw. Can't wait 'til my Cal. kings grow up. I'd like to try breeding someday with them.

I'm going to attach a couple more pics. This is a king that was caught in 2003 in the Green Valley area. I believe it's the one we brought home that year. We have a male from that year and a female from this year...

Most of the ones I see in the Santa Cruz Valley have those very narrow light bands. As you get closer to Cochise Co. they start to look more like typical desert kings (splendida).

Hats off to the writer we had a great trip filled with adventure, reptiles were out though a few targets did not present themselves. any day in the field is a good day.

Cheers
Brett

LOL, I told you Im a biologist, IT is definitely not my bag unless it is draped over a buxom blond! Great text Juan, how the $%$%#$$%$% did you get it to post with the text like that???I couldnt do it, too togged to move.
A great trip and hopefully one of many yet to come!
CHeers
Lat

....shhshh...all you had to do was load the rtf file I sent you ...on any word processor ...& cut n paste it! Hey if it was hard..you know I couldnt do it...like answer the v-mail on my celly...zzzz

1 more thing...mega-congrats on figuring out the AHA forum..I was a member for years, occasional guest speaker...& they finally unceremoniously booted me from the forum & lapsed my membership...

>>1 more thing...mega-congrats on figuring out the AHA forum..I was a member for years, occasional guest speaker...& they finally unceremoniously booted me from the forum & lapsed my membership...
>>
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=870823,870956
There must be a story:
"not aha; another "perp" from an organized poaching syndicate...until EVIDENCE indicates otherwise."
Glad to hear that aggies had nothing to do with it
Shane

Theres an amalgamation of posts there... that I dont see the nexus Shane...but I'll bet your on to something...mebbe the aggies are amok again! Beers / RxR

Posted by: TxHerper at Sat Sep 10 16:07:03 2005 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

>>1 more thing...mega-congrats on figuring out the AHA forum..I was a member for years, occasional guest speaker...& they finally unceremoniously booted me from the forum & lapsed my membership...
>>
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=870823,870956
There must be a story:
"not aha; another "perp" from an organized poaching syndicate...until EVIDENCE indicates otherwise."
Glad to hear that aggies had nothing to do with it
Shane

Rat man may have it right. Too much rain.
Nice set up Regal!

The roadriding numbers were way off at our location as well but a few nice snakes and thangs were observed.
We had trouble getting our heads on the same page while out which wasted some time but still a good time was had by all.
A few early morning lepidus were a nice treat.
I'll save my sky island posts for the winter months.
Right now they are very common and frequent among the boards.
There is still a month or so left so it's not over yet!
Kenny S>

...Im starting to type like a Jamaican....man...

Mega-grats on the leps...jpgs???? we shoulda had em out when we were above Ramsey....oh well its missing willards (as always) that really bumm'd me anyway...

Youre right theres lotsa weeks left

Earlier this year I found a splendida at 5400' in the Guadalupe Mountains. I'm not sure what the elevation record for these are.

...seems to me youre a bit higher yet..Ive seen Calis ~ a mile high near Fredonia on the Az-Ut border....I'd think your's is way up there. Gr8t post by the way on the black forum...ya otta post it here 2...

Beers....RxR...(mon)

Posted by: Erik - NM at Sat Sep 10 12:44:35 2005 [ Report Abuse ] [ Email Message ]

Earlier this year I found a splendida at 5400' in the Guadalupe Mountains. I'm not sure what the elevation record for these are.

I gotta agree with TC (Ratman). Nice post and a well appreciated narrative. For what its worth, Hopkins was pretty darn slow that night, despite the Green Rat. - one of just two snakes. The Chucas haven't been producing for me the last few weeks so maybe it is the rain. As Sharrqaacks said, there is still time. I need to see one of our little buzzers up there.

....Youre a "marked" man....hahahahaha
Not really funny & thank Iitoi it didnt come off as jamaican....zzzzz
So youre the lad that found Lats rat eh????? Mega-congrats!
Would it be too much for us to see....the rat that rightfully was OURS???? (please).
I cant believe I spaced out the exit & wound up way N near Continental...what a lamebrain....but now that you mention it...what was my navigator doing....contemplating his navel???

Saludos / RxR