Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have some questions and thought i would see what you folks think.
1) What would be a good species of dart frog for a newbie to amphibians.
2) As some may have read, i have my eye on one of those exo-terras, I would get the large one 18"x18"x24". These setups scream to have a water feature in them. What is the maximum water depth one can incorporate with dart frogs. I thought i read somewhere that dart frogs do not swim well. Would a sloped bank be of any help if one should fall into the water feature??
I think that is it for now, i'm sure i'll have more later. Clint
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0.1 Colombian Boa-(Boa Constrictor Imperator) "Honey"
1.0 Hogg Isle Boa-(Boa Constrictor Imperator) "Peeker"
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa-(Epicrates Cenchria) "Houdini"
1.1 Argentine Boa-(Boa Constrictor Occidentalis) "Lacie" & "Oreo"
0.0.2 Green Tree Python-(Morelia Viridis)Biak type-"Smog" & Sorong type- "un-named"
2.0 Canines Husky-Cody & Husky/Shepard-Trail
0.1 Wife-Michele
2.0 Kids-Chris & Bodhi(still in the oven)

my vivarium houses a green tree python and not frogs but i designed mine from dartfrog plans found on dartfrog websites.most people(including me) who have a waterfeature like a waterfall,dont really have a deep pool like you are asking about.there is quite a bit of water,and some can get pretty deep,but the water is below the surface trapped in the false bottom and only a small percentage of it is allowed to be exposed.this is for several reasons,one being darts are not swimmers by choice and do not benifit from large,deep pools.as for me,since i dont house frogs in mine,i could have gone with a large pool but decided against it mainly because if i included a large open water area,it would take ground space away from me,that i could better use for plants,moss,logs,mushrooms,litchens,rocks caves and other accents.its my opinion that these things are much nicer to look at than a large area of water,not to mention that they are functional and are things that your frogs can use,while a large water area would just be an area that would be avoided for the most part.if i were you id make a nice small waterfall or small pond in the corner somewhere and have things covering over the pond like branches or cliffs.this way your frogs wouyld still be able to use that area by climbing on the logs and rocks over the pond.

I have a paludarium with an aquarium feature separated from the land by glass barriers. It's a large 135 gallon 6 foot long tank. There isn't much room for a deep water feature in anything smaller. The galactonotus in this have fallen in a few times and can swim perfectly efficiently, as long as you have egress to land such as a log from land to water, etc. If you use a deep water feature for fish, this shouldn't be a part of a false bottom, but separated by glass so the water doesn't become contaminated by soil drainage and also so that any frog that falls in won't get caught under the false bottom portion. The darts are actually less likely to drown in deep water, as if they fall in wrestling, they are forced to swim for it and have no purchase to hold each other under as has apparently happened with one frog drowning another in a fight. (I've never experienced this drowning phenomenon, but they sure won't continue a fight if they land in deep water.)

Water features aren't essential, but they are certainly nice and add to the overall rain forest effect.

As for best frogs for a first experience, I think D. leucomelas are on the top of the list. They get along in groups quite well, are bold and active, use all areas of a tank, are fun to watch and have a pleasant well-audible call. Another consideration is that they are relatively cheap and available. Avoid obligate egg feeders such as the pumilio, the very tiny thumbnails for first frogs, although I think the imitators and their close cousins wouldn't disappoint a beginner. Just have lots of bromelaids for them to breed and sit in. They do go on the ground occasionally, but prefer the upper reaches. Others on my list, not considering price necessarily are D. galactonotus, D. azureus, D. auratus, P. terribilis, and many people recommend tinctorius. These, like D. azureus may not be good in a group and may do better in mated pairs.

Good luck and show us some pictures of your vivarium when you have it finished.

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

I would like to use the water prtion for a couple of small tropical fish. This being the case i think it would be best to have an arboral species. Any Ideas would be appreciated. Clint
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0.1 Colombian Boa-(Boa Constrictor Imperator) "Honey"
1.0 Hogg Isle Boa-(Boa Constrictor Imperator) "Peeker"
1.0 Brazilian Rainbow Boa-(Epicrates Cenchria) "Houdini"
1.1 Argentine Boa-(Boa Constrictor Occidentalis) "Lacie" & "Oreo"
0.0.2 Green Tree Python-(Morelia Viridis)Biak type-"Smog" & Sorong type- "un-named"
2.0 Canines Husky-Cody & Husky/Shepard-Trail
0.1 Wife-Michele
2.0 Kids-Chris & Bodhi(still in the oven)

The frog doesn't need to be arboreal, which is a relative term in a small tank, anyway. The thumbnails in nature tend to be arboreal, but in a tank, they will utilize all levels. The larger leucomelas, etc. will also use all levels of a vivarium. Even my P. terribilis that tend to hang out on the ground, can be found up in bromeliad leaves and on top of the water fall at times. You are only talking about inches or a couple of feet in height in a vivarium, while in a rain forest, the difference between arboral and terrestrial is measured in meters. Every dart frog I have can be found at any level. Even my pumilios hang out on the ground a lot.

Incidentally, I've found the best fish for my paludarium aquarium section have been the tetras such as X-ray, rummy nose, head and tail-light, but not neons. I also have some orange chinese algae eaters and a couple of yoyo loaches to control snails. I tried some platys, but although they bred and produced fry, they eventually all died off. I still have some of the original tetras from 5 years ago.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus