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A Few Pics Of My New Dragon.

Mystical-Dragons Sep 11, 2005 07:24 PM

I actually got this little girl for free from a local breeder. She said she was not eating, was growing slow, and most likely would die. Believe it or not she looked nothing like she does in the pictures. She was pitiful looking, and actually dark brown in color with very little hints of orange/red coloring.

Now a month, and a half later I have her eating really well on a wide variety diet, she is growing, and today when the breeder came over she did not recognize her. She thought the one she gave me would have died. when I showed her, and told her that was the little girl her jaw hit the floor She was shocked at the color of her dragon. She told me she was the best of the clutch, and that none of her siblings had color like her. We got to talking, and one thing was she was using crap UVB bulbs. When I used the UV meter on my baby rack to show her how much the mega rays, and repti-sun 10.0's produce, and then her suposedly 7% ESU bulbs later that day the differance was huge.

In the past I have gotten quite a few average dragons to show exceptional color. It's either the diet, or the good UVB lighting they receive here. I even sold a full body bright orange dragon last season, to buy it back 5 months later with no color. In a month I had him glowing, and growing, and he is now still with me at 600 grams 22 inches of bright orange dragon.

If there is one thing to tell someone who is looking into dragons or any reptile for that matter it is to research the products available as well as the animal itself. Some of the most commonly found UVb fluorescent bulbs in the stores are as good as junk.



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Mystical-Dragons Web Site
Webshots photos

Replies (14)

nathan23 Sep 11, 2005 11:05 PM

Just curious if you have tried metering the 10.0 uvb compact flourecents?

peace,
nathan

Mystical-Dragons Sep 12, 2005 12:59 AM

No, I haven't tested the 10.0 compact. I Don't really have the setups to accomidate those kind. So couldn;t tell you how those compare to the regular tube style fluorescent 10.0's
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Mystical-Dragons Web Site
Webshots photos

alphadragon Sep 12, 2005 12:59 PM

I have not metered the compact myself but I can tell you that the UVB meter group does not recommend this bulb because of the high UVB that it puts out initially and its fast decay rate. Several of my customers have also used it and came home to dragons with swollen and shut eyes that did not open for days. I actually saw a couple of very expensive animals this weekend that were under compacts a few days before the NARBC and they would/could not open there eyes.
-Randy
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www.AlphaDragonZ.com

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nathan23 Sep 12, 2005 02:05 PM

Thanks for the input Randy. I do not use compacts myself except on my reef tanks. I wont even be considering them now for the reptiles.

peace,
nathan

Colchicine Sep 12, 2005 05:26 PM

>>I have not metered the compact myself but I can tell you that the UVB meter group does not recommend this bulb because of the high UVB that it puts out initially and its fast decay rate. Several of my customers have also used it and came home to dragons with swollen and shut eyes that did not open for days. I actually saw a couple of very expensive animals this weekend that were under compacts a few days before the NARBC and they would/could not open there eyes.
>>-Randy
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>>www.AlphaDragonZ.com
>>
>>
>>____
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>>
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

Colchicine Sep 12, 2005 05:29 PM

I am familiar with the yahoo UVB meter group, that is how I found reptileuv.com. However, I have never heard of any effects of too much UVB, much less its mechanism for swelling eyes shut! I have a hard time believing that a compact fluorescent can put out more UVB than a mercury vapor, and I haven't ever heard of any detrimental effects of those.
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

alphadragon Sep 12, 2005 10:26 PM

Well I would suggest doing a file search on the UVB meter group and reptilerooms.com about the Reptisun 10.0 Compact bulbs .I work with Vero Cells which is a immortal tissue culture cell line. We have to work in Bio Hoods and guess what cidal measures we use to kill microbes? We use Ultra Violet flourescent tubes that throw much more UVB than any MVB, kind of like the Mystic fluorescent tubes from Big Apple.
-Randy
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www.AlphaDragonZ.com

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Colchicine Sep 13, 2005 07:11 AM

Will do on the UVB Meter search.

I would imagine the UV bulbs used to kill the microbes would be using UVC, which is used in UV sterilizers for large aquariums.

>>Well I would suggest doing a file search on the UVB meter group and reptilerooms.com about the Reptisun 10.0 Compact bulbs .I work with Vero Cells which is a immortal tissue culture cell line. We have to work in Bio Hoods and guess what cidal measures we use to kill microbes? We use Ultra Violet flourescent tubes that throw much more UVB than any MVB, kind of like the Mystic fluorescent tubes from Big Apple.
>>-Randy
>>-----
>>www.AlphaDragonZ.com
>>
>>
>>____
>>
>>
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

Mystical-Dragons Sep 12, 2005 10:39 PM

I can't get technical for you or anything, but I have seen this first hand while caring for another breeders dragons. In this instance it was with the Big Apple Mystic bulbs they sell. 2 days after using the bulbs all dragons in the cages which had been switched to the mystics were laying lethargically across the bottoms with eyes swollen. It took 3 days after switching the bulbs out for the dragons eyes, and activities to go back to normal. When these bulbs first came out They mentioned nothing about the bulb only needing to be used for 8-10 hours, and with cages with screaning filtering the light like their site does now. They got complaints about the bulb, and dragons eyes swelling shut from their bulbs, and then they started listing all the new guidelines for the use of their bulbs.

I can only speculate that it is not the amount of uvb they put out as I do use high powered Mega Ray mercury vapors, and never had problems such as these, but maybe a specific wavelength certain bulbs provide that others don't???

I'm not sure if this was spoken of on another group/board or not, but just have first hand experience with the mystic bulbs, and eyes swelling closed.
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Mystical-Dragons Web Site
Webshots photos

Colchicine Sep 13, 2005 07:13 AM

You have a point, perhaps the bulb is emitting something MORE than just UV and visible light. The MegaRay bulbs (zoo) certainly emit a WHOLE lot of UVB, a reading from 12 in will max out the meter, but then again it is only supposed to be used 3ft away.

>>I can't get technical for you or anything, but I have seen this first hand while caring for another breeders dragons. In this instance it was with the Big Apple Mystic bulbs they sell. 2 days after using the bulbs all dragons in the cages which had been switched to the mystics were laying lethargically across the bottoms with eyes swollen. It took 3 days after switching the bulbs out for the dragons eyes, and activities to go back to normal. When these bulbs first came out They mentioned nothing about the bulb only needing to be used for 8-10 hours, and with cages with screaning filtering the light like their site does now. They got complaints about the bulb, and dragons eyes swelling shut from their bulbs, and then they started listing all the new guidelines for the use of their bulbs.
>>
>>I can only speculate that it is not the amount of uvb they put out as I do use high powered Mega Ray mercury vapors, and never had problems such as these, but maybe a specific wavelength certain bulbs provide that others don't???
>>
>>I'm not sure if this was spoken of on another group/board or not, but just have first hand experience with the mystic bulbs, and eyes swelling closed.
>>-----
>>
>>Mystical-Dragons Web Site
>>Webshots photos
-----
"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

alphadragon Sep 13, 2005 01:49 PM

One technique that scientists use to immunosuppress mice is UVB irradiation. When mice,rats,most animals are irradiated they get cutaneous erythema, swelling and cell death. I have seen it and had to unfortunately do it myself. We use medical grade almost purple UVB in doses and guess what is the first thing to happen? The mice cannot open there eyes they are red and swelled shut. Well here are some papers that might explain it better.

1: Front Biosci. 2006 Jan 1;11:394-411. Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Spectral and dose dependence of ultraviolet radiation-induced immunosuppression.

Phan TA, Halliday GM, Barnetso RS, Damian DL.

Department of Medicine (Dermatology), Melanoma and Skin Cancer Research Institute, Royal Prince Alfred Hospital at the University of Sydney, Sydney Australia.

Ultraviolet radiation (UV) wavelength and dose dependence has been demonstrated for a number of cutaneous endpoints such as erythema, pigment darkening, DNA damage, and photocarcinogenesis.

2.J Biol Chem. 2005 Aug 22; [Epub ahead of print] Related Articles, Links
Click here to read
Ultraviolet B radiation generates PAF-like phospholipids underlying cutaneous inflammation.

Marathe GK, Johnson C, Billings SD, Southall MD, Pei Y, Spandau D, Murphy RC, Zimmerman GA, McIntyre TM, Travers JB.

Department of Cell Biology, Cleveland Clinic Foundation, Cleveland, OH 44195.

Ultraviolet B light (UVB) causes cutaneous inflammation and cell death, but the agents responsible are not defined.

Those are just two papers that I found on pubmed there are several and when I tell you that I have seen and done this first hand I am serious.
Thanks,
Randy
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www.AlphaDragonZ.com

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Colchicine Sep 13, 2005 06:14 PM

Wow, someone else who cites scientific literature on kingsnake.com? How refreshing! I greatly appreciate the info, I will see if they are available at my university. Apparently the adverse effects of UVB are not being well enough broadcast. I will pass it along, and I greatly appreciate the literature.
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"I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully."
Governor George W. Bush, Jr.

"Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us."
Calvin and Hobbes (Scientific Progress Goes 'Boink', 1991)

B22 Sep 12, 2005 11:41 PM

Hi
there excist several types of compacts uvb/uva lights.
in the netherlands whe have osram compacts 7%,euro zoo compact 2% -7%.
when they first came in the netherlands some people got complains .
beardies who not eat,shut eyes,even the scales where like melted in eachother.
i have seen it .
i also know some beardies got almost blind and have problems with aiming prey r even catch it.
i know the osram whas no problem ,but here it broke down after 1 month.
and the euro zoo 2 % i used for the babies whas ok .
but stil after the compacts and the mercury vapour lights .
i buy stil the zoomed 5.0 reptisun .
i hang them very close by my animals and that always works fine.
so the golden oldies working the best in my opinion.
also the 300 watt osram vitalux is recomended its used to give humans light therapy.
i have used them for 30 min on my animals a day and that worked very fine.
but 9 x 30 min front a terrarium is much work.
so that whas i wanna tell
byeeee

rugbyman2000 Sep 22, 2005 08:08 AM

As someone who runs a reptile rescue, I can attest to the fact that certain herps look AWFUL without proper UVB! If you saw some of the herps that come into the rescue you would want to cry.

Don't forget natural sunlight!
If you're able to do so, give your herps a few months of natural sunlight during the Spring/Summer. It will save you a ton of $ on bulbs, and in my opinion nothing beats the real thing! The iguana, beardie, uro, and tortoises in our traveling reptile program spend many hours outdoors whenever it's warm enough.

Below are some pics of nine beardies that showed up on our doorstep a couple months ago unannounced. They had been sent 2-day mail from CA to PA and 7 of 9 had missing feet (probably mutilation victims from the looks of it). A couple appeared to have rubber jaw and lame legs, probably from lack of UVB. Fortunately we found good homes for all nine of them, and with lots of natural and synthetic UVB and good diets they're all looking ALOT better already.

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Jesse Rothacker
Forgotten Friend Reptile Sanctuary
Find out how YOU can get involved in reptile rescue...
www.forgottenfriend.org

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