Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Had our veiled cham for 1 year - he was about 1 1/2 when we got him. Good health - so we thought- eating well, etc. One day we noticed that his eyes wouldn't open - when he moved the eye ball it was bulging behind the closed lid. Wouldn't eat (couldnt see) took him to the vet - they had no answers but flushed his eyes, worming, iv fluids, vitamin shot. One eye opened - vet said a lot of fluid discharge - not infected looking. Sent home with worming treatment, gentocin for eyes (in case of bacterial infection). Seemed better day he got home, and the next but by the third day he isn't eating and still just one eye open. He just hides in the leaves. No interest in moving food. Is he dying? What are the euthanasia options? I hate to see him suffer.

T-mac, I hope I didn't give you any false hopes by replying, 'cause I got on to ask about the exact same thing. I mean the exact same thing! The same eye problems, same runny discharges, same lethargy, even the same age of the chams! I have no clue what's going on. My herp vet even said the same thing as yours.
I've been looking for info. on life expectancy, thinking maybe these were his last days so I could prepare myself, but most sites don't include that. One site I found said 3 years in the wild, another said 7-10 in captivity. That's a pretty large discrepancy, so I don't know which to believe.
If you find out anything, anything, please email me wrdc3@aol.com.
I'll post again, if I find out more info.
Mike
-----
2.1.0 water dragons, 2.2 crested geckos, 0.0.3 turtles, 1.0.0 5-line skink, 2.0.0 anoles, 0.0.1 giant millipede, 1.0.0 uromastyx, 1.0.0 armadillo lizard, 1.0.0 veiled chameleon, 1.1.0 bearded dragons, 1.0.0 pictus gecko, 1.1.0 CA banded gecko, 1.0.0 Hondo, 1.1.0 corns, 1.0.0 dog, 1.1.0 cats, 0.1.0 wife, 2 SW tanks - 20H, 55

Have you tried warm showers?
I sure wouldn't give up on him yet - we have had male veileds live to 7 yrs. Sure, some have problems, but many can be healed with extra care.

Eye problems can be the result of lots of things, but if he closed them and was bulging them out, it sounds like some particles of something might be lodged in there. The best way to help the chameleon clean his eyes is to place him on a tree/bushy plant or limb in a shower - the water should be warm (not cold) and aim the spray on the wall above the chameleon. The spray should bounce onto the cham and provide a soft shower spray.

This can be done for 20 minutes per session twice per day. Then you can administer the eye drops. Did your vet say to medicate once or twice per day?

The worst thing with eye infections is to get the drops in the eye. I hope you have a friend help you hold him, so you can gently open the eyelid - be careful, they are small openings.

I hope you decide to give it some additional effort before you condider euthanasia - he just might surprise you.

Morgana - Reptayls, Ltd.

Thank you so much for your reply. I called the vet this am and she said to bring him back in for the day and she would flush the eye several times again. She was willing to reduce her fee by quite a bit when i explained that i just couldn't spend another 177$ again (this was the first vet bill 5 days ago). Additionally she said it may take several times. He responded well after the intial visit. I don't know though whether she will do the iv fluids again. I have to put the drops in 2x day but i haven't done it today as the eyes are completely shut and they just roll off. She said I might have to force feed him for a while if he isn't eating but I just think that would be so stressful when he is already so bad. What do you think? I tried misting the cage today just so that there were a few drops of water around for him since he can't see (there is a drip already in there)and he HATED it ... so I think the shower thing would not be fun ... I don't have a lot of money so i need to put some kind of limit on this, sad to say. I will definitely try the vet again tomorrow but i don't know after that. I am not giving up yet but I do need to think about the euthanasia options though ... do you know what they are? Oh, the vet said there was a lot of discharge but not infected looking in both eyes. What could that be? She used anesthesia to do it so i would have thought she could have seen any irritants? The eye buldging- it does this when he tries to turn his eye ball around when the skin area is all closed up ... it buldges out on the sides as he turns the eye ball when the lids are closed. Maybe fluid build up?

Oh, there is NO runny discharge ... the vet said that when she flushed the eyes there was a lot of discharge/fluid in them. But it didin't look like infection (so why am i doing the drops?)

Whoa, euthanasia is a long way off probably! Chams close their eyes for lots of reasons, some of which are fairly easy to fix. They can go a week without eating much of anything (assuming they were eating and healthy before this started), so he won't starve right away. Putting in the gentocin drops will handle an infection that MIGHT be present or in the early stages, so it won't hurt anything. He's probably not blind at all, his eyes are irritated by something or he's a bit run down.

Showering the cham is a great way to help him clean his eyes by himself, which is why he's bulging and moving his eyes around under the lids. It will also keep him drinking if he won't open his eyes to find a dripper. When spraying him, it will startle him less if the water is warm. Fill the spray bottle with hot water and by the time the droplets reach him they will be cooler. Don't spray him directly in the face, but in the foliage around his head, and let drips fall on his face. He should start licking the water off his lips, start swallowing, and you can usually start dripping water directly on his face at that point and he will swallow it. He's had enough water when he starts tipping his head straight up and turning away from the dripping.

The most common reason chams start closing eyes and having eye problems is from too dry a cage and from low level dehydration. What is the air humidity in the cage, how does he normally get water? What supplements is he getting and how often? It is easy to misjudge them and there could be a deficiency going on too.

Also, you can flush his eyes and clean them yourself using sterile contact lens saline solution in the squirt bottle.

If he's been healthy up to this point he is a long way from euthanasia, so try these ideas first. Also remember reptiles take a long time to show problems and just as long a time to recover from them. Give him time, keep him drinking, don't insist on force feeding yet, and he may come around OK.

OK, give me more details on how you do this shower thing. In the cage? What do you use to shower him with (a mister or more like larger drips from a container with holes in it?) SHould I keep using the eye drops (he hates them). Saw the vet again today and she said lots of gooey discharge (not infected) and she could only get one eye open. You say I can just flush the eyes but directing the stream of saline solution directly into the eye (the vet had to use sedation and gently pry open the eyes)? Temp 86 humidity 72%. gut loaded (3 days) crickets and recently added worms and veg's (as per the vet). UVB lite and basking lamp 10-12 hrs. He didn't eat tonight and she said to force feed. You don't agree? She said if he doesn't recover this time we need to consider "humane" euthanasia. What types of euthanasia are there?

To "shower" a cham, put either a live bushy plant or a big fake plant in your shower, aim the spray so it bounces off a wall onto the plant (less force and the cham can move in or out of the path of the spray), and turn the water on luke warm. Remember, water that feels warm to YOU will feel hot to a reptile. Leave him in there for 20 minutes at the least. More is better if you can. The very high humidity, gentle warmth, and constant moisture will help rehydrate him and help loosen the discharge in his eyes. He may not like it at first, but most chams eventually love their showers. Do this every day or so if you can.

You can help clean the matter off his eyelids by squirting the saline directly on the eyelid and VERY gently wiping away any matter with a Q tip. What I'd suggest is first clean the eyes, then put in the drops. You have to handle him anyway so its a good time to do both. The drops won't hurt anything, so continue with them. Never stop an antibiotic treatment early or any resistant bacteria still present will just develop again and be harder to treat.

So how long has it been since he's eaten? If I remember right, its only been a few days. Is he drinking at all? You can give him Pedialyte in a dropper if you can get him swallowing, and this will give him electrolytes and glucose. Again, keeping him drinking is more important than eating right now, and force feeding is very stressful and risky. Forcing water or food can damage the esophagus and trachea.

He's probably uncomfortable, but a cham is not necessarily dying if it is reactive to anything around it and is attempting to drink. I wouldn't say he's close to death at this point...I have rescued a female jax who was in much worse shape and she eventually did very well. A cham who is close to death will not be able to perch, swallow, or control its tongue, legs or tail, will be completely unaware of its surroundings, eyes will be completely sunken in, and show odd coloration in large areas on its skin...such as one whole leg, its head but not the body, one side a different color than the other (not basking).

But, if you really feel he's far gone you will have to decide for yourself when to put him down. Let the vet do it by injection. There are other "home" methods, but whether they are as humane or not is really a debate.

Put lots of towels on the floor of the tub so that if he falls he does not land on the hard tub floor. Luna loved her showers once she got in there. As Carlton said, use a plant and aim water on side so he just gets the spray. What I would do was to put her on the plant in the tub out of the water. I would slowly move and rotate the plant closer to the spray and watched her response. When she seemed comfy (eyes closed, usually head up) I would leave her. If the pressure changes a lot then you might want to monitor him closely so he gets no surprises. If he gets a sudden blast he may scramble to get out of it and fall - thus the soft towel landing.

I read most of this thread but don't recall if anyone sent you to the link below so you can give your setup info. Go to the Questions section and tell us what all of his setup particulars are (you can copy and paste the ??? into a post so that you cover them all. Hope this helps and that he gets better!

Good Luck!!

lele

-----
Chameleon Help & Resource Info

0.1 Veiled Chameleon - Luna. She's now hanging from her big jungle gym in the sky
1.0 Beardie - Darwin
0.2 felines - Kyndra and Lita
0.1 African Clawed Frog - Skipper
0.3 Mad. Hissers (2 died ;(
0.1 Chilean Rose Hair Tarantula - Rosa Leigh
0.1 Goliath Bird-Eater Tarantula - Natasha

Everyone has been soooo helpful - THANKS! I get the shower idea now - I will try it tonight! I guess if i put him in the tub there is no way that he can climb out if he freaks out.

I just finished feeding him and he ATE 3 crickets and 4 super worms! Yesterday I did force feed him (prior to reading these posts) and it was terrible. I opened his mouth with a dropper and dropped a cricket in (as he was hissing and thrashing). I won't do that again - I would rather he died a peaceful death.

One eye is still completely closed and as of tonight the other is still open. Can he have an ok life with just one eye? It is pitiful to see him have to turn his head almost sideways to see his prey and then miss half the time.

I wanted to clarify - I see no discharge or residue on the outside of his eyes. The one is just completely closed up and the other even when open seems to have like a fluid buildup like a pocket almost as he rotates the eye around. Can you tell me how to post a pic maybe that would help explain.

Don't give up on the eye yet. There may be nothing wrong with the optic nerve or the retina itself. I doubt his vision is damaged, but you'll just have to wait and see. Even if he does lose some vision in one eye he can learn to shoot and hunt with one fairly well. They have done research on temporarily blinded chams (tape over one eye) and found that they learn to sight in and shoot accurately fairly quickly. The fact that he is trying to eat, is opening one eye is all good news. But, now that he may be recovering you should really check over your husbandry to figure out what might have caused the trouble. Review temp, humidity, supplementation, lighting, and nutritional info to find any possible gaps. Change the UVB light if it is over 6 months old. Make sure your humidity gauge is working correctly. Clean everything in the cage.

There are good recent articles on veileds at this site:

http://www.chameleonnews.com

i can give him time but when he isn't eating i feel that he is suffering since he can't see and therefore won't eat.

Our chameleon is having a similar problem. Both eyes are shut, probably from dehydration. We have been showering and misting his cage very often. There is a drip system which I am not sure that he is using. How long should it take for the eyes to open back up?
Link

Our chameleon is having a similar problem. Both eyes are shut, probably from dehydration. We have been showering and misting his cage very often. There is a drip system which I am not sure that he is using. How long should it take for the eyes to open back up?
Synergy Marketing