Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I'm interested to know how most collectors have pulled alterna out of Black Gap? The road cuts don't look that spectacular... not much limestone and crevices. I'm assuming you can't spotlight the cuts within the WMA which leaves only a few near the border and a few near stillwells. Are most specimens road collected? The ratio between hours spent collecting to specimens caught must be outrageous! There seems to be great habitat off the road, but isn't most of this within the WMA? Any help would be greatly appreciated. What's the best time of the year for this area (May and June?)Thanks...
Brooks Thode

I found 2 on the cut 1 mile south of Black Gap entrance. The hill is boulder strewn and really reminds me of the hills at Luna Vista. 1 was one the road, another on a bare dirt cut.
E-mail me Brooks, I have a new phone number.

Thanks everyone for the input. My ol' man and I hunted Black Gap the week after Labor Day until about 2 am, then we headed back to Marfa. The conditions were right (slight breeze) but all we saw were 4 atrox. Stumbled upon a molosses in an abandoned adobe shack within the WMA while hiking in the day time. My 5 year old daughter found him... thank God she didn't feel the need to pick him up. The one draw back to having a youngster handle snakes at an early age... no fear. He was a big beautiful olive green specimen. Steve, I'll send you pics of my daughter and I holding him on a snake hook. I also have some pics of the nice Boy Scout Ranch Road Alterna that Dad found in June.
I'm wanting to focus on the interesting patterns that can be found in these remote locations. Wanting to look more into the possible genetic "bottleneck" effects on these isolated populations. I'm sure there are plenty of others doing the same work, but it's a personal fascination I have right now. I would really like to get into the Guadalupes and the Huecos. I'm also talking to a professor at the university of Vera Cruz (Mexico) about the possibility of documenting alterna in Mexico (primarily the state of Chihuahua and the Mexican side of the Big Bend National Park). He works with Abronia (tropical, prehensile tailed Alligator Lizards) but he may be able to help with this. Steve, I'll email you soon...
Brooks Thode

I wonder how many of these populations are really "isolated." Especially with Black Gap and really most of the Rio Grande valley running around the bend it seems like there is continuous habitat for alterna. Looking thru Johnson's wonderful photographic record of wild caught Black Gap alternas, it looks to me like that population is not isolated at all. I'm sure you mean geographical areas where there are higher frequencies of certain pattern types so I am overstating things I'm sure and no offense intended!

This does raise a really interesting point I've wondered a lot about: how far will alterna range away from rock cover and crevice habitat? Within this, I include areas like the whole blairi zone where you get most rock below the immediate ground surface (the habitat is still there right under the surface). I've personally found 3 alterna in areas away from any rock cover in the Big Bend area. Does that mean they are wide ranging in that region? Perhaps it comes down to what their home range is. From Damon's message, it would appear that range is at least half a mile. It would be interesting to map all possible habitat, plot a half mile border around it and see what you come up with. I'm betting some of you out there have caught alterna way out in the flats in the Bend country and I think I recall Mackin saying that he had found one or two like that.

So are there truly isolated populations? Maybe the Huecos qualify? It would be fun to check the DNA.
--Henry W.

1. most of the gaps caught have been road-collected

2. probably less than 50 gaps are known to have been collected, ever (I used to have a fairly accurate count, but I've quit counting the past several years)

3. most folks average 10-20 nights per snake there. I think I and Dan Johnson are doing a little better, but my snake/night ratio there has been going down, not up over the past couple of years

4. you can spotlight any road cut you want there - the cuts are part of the highway right-of-way, and owned by TxDOT not TPWD

5. the management area is closed to collecting, so you can't get out and walk off the roads/cuts

6. I have the 4&5 info from two different wardens (most recently Ray Spears/Brewster Co Warden)

7. the cuts there are mostly pretty poor . . . but with zero traffic, snakes are pretty much equally likely to cross the road as to get on cuts there - its not like there are cars zooming by every few minutes to scare them back off the road ways

8. I've caught 4 of my 5 on the road, one on a cut . . . by accident

Troy

Thanks for the great information Troy. By any chance, were you the one who gave my brother and dad a battery jump on their rental car on the River Road over Labor Day weekend? I was hunting the Christmas Mts that night and I skipped over to the River road after they had just been helped out. I believe it was you. I've never met your acquaintance, but I've heard a lot of good things about you from some other herper friends.
Brooks

they were up on the top of the big hill waving lights around at us LOL . . . happy to help with the jump . . . I also saw one of your brothers on 2810 driving the rental caddy the next day.

Troy

Hey man! Hope all is well with the family. Glad you had a pretty good year catching alterna. I have the perfect collecting schedule but can't afford to be out paying 3 bucks a gallon. I work nights now 3 days a week, 4 off.

oh well... That is murphy for you.

Have you ran into Earl Turner in your travels in Val Verde?

Steven