Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Yuma king a friend hatched out.

????????

Just curious, they look normal to me.

Kerby...

there is an axanthic in the group. The rest are normals.

I think this is the very first axanthic cal king ever produced. It looks very blue and should turn out very nice looking.

But I would like to see pics after they shed. I know how cal kings can have different "looks" (hypo, etc...) as hatchlings only to change later and there is no visible difference.

Please post pics after they shed.

Thanks

Kerby...

you should know me well enough that if I say its an axanthic then thats what it is. The pic is older. There are adults now. Neonates will be unleashed in '07 to the buying public.

The snake is blue much like the blue in an axanthic brooks king. There is no red or yellows. It IS an axanthic. These are not new. Just new to you. Just because you breed cal kings don't be jealous .

I'm not sure if axanthic is the right term since an axanthic cal king would have black and white instead of black and yellow bands, wouldn't it?
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, TX

It does have black and white bands. What animal in the pic are you guys looking at?

Listen it is an axanthic. Nobody is interested in selling them. I don't need a pic to prove anything since I have nothing to prove. Just lets drop it and I won't share anything new.

I would love to see more pics of those guys if you are willing to post them. Thanks for sharing!
-----
James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

It does have black and white bands. What animal in the pic are you guys looking at?

Listen it is an axanthic. Nobody is interested in selling them. I don't need a pic to prove anything since I have nothing to prove. Just lets drop it and I won't share anything new.

I wasn't questioning your credibility, just the name axanthic as it applies here. Clearly the snake has different pigmentation than the others in the clutch and maybe this is a heritable mutation.

Relax, I didn't ask to see the adults to call you out, I really just wanted to see what they looked like. Sounds like Kerby was asking the same thing.

-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, TX

I now understand what you inferred. I see that the snake is less yellow than the others in the clutch obviously. I just don't see how that is any different from the thousands of other "axanthic" (B&W) cal kings.
-----
Chris Harrison
San Antonio, TX

BUY A BETTER COMPUTER SCREEN!

Or just transfer the pic on to your desktop and then you can use the zoom feature.

First, whenever someone posts, they are exposing the post or picture to a wide range of experiences and ideas. In other words, all sorts of individuals, that do not think alike. Sir that is a good thing.

Also, no matter what you post of this forum or any forum, you will recieve a range of opinions, see above. Never will all agree, see kerith, in his search for herp love

With that said, I would think lacking yellows and reds, axanthic, was first seen in desert black and white kings, as in pure naturally occuring axanthics.

Also, as a person near Yuma, I am not sure those are Yuma kings but a captive produced faxcimile of Yuma kings. Of course it may be, but as I have mentioned, in captivity, selection disappears and those wide(lite color) bandeds would be naturally selected against and not show up commonly while collecting. Also, the breaking up of the dark bands, is not normal for Yuma kings. Again, I am going off wild individuals as the word Yuma is a location of occurance not a breeder facility.

So, I too, wonder how you would call any of those axanthic, as they a are slightly brown and brown is a product of black and yellow(in kingsnakes) But again, its only words. As I hope your like me, when viewing all the goofy ball pythons, with all their goofy names. Heck, we simply called many of those morphs, ugly. Not that any kingsnake would be ugly.

For instance, that nice fella in San Diego posted the pic of an adult wild caught Hypo cal king, hypo means less black???? how about that animal being, hyper-xanthic, more yellow in the black. Then less black????? I would call that one a lite colored individual and those are common thru out SoCal.

OK, before you get mad, heres what I think, in order to use such terms as hypo or hyper(anything) The individual must exceed the range of normally occurring specimens. That is, all specimens. As in every population, there are lite ones, dark ones, so on and so forth, that is normal. Hypo or hyper, should exceed normal. In not, all specimens but the middle one, would be to some extent, hypo or hyper.

With that aside(where it should be) if its a first for you, that is what is important, if it blows you skirt up, then thats what is important. Don't ever let anyone else bother that.

One of my favorite events here on this site, is to see normal patterned snakes, that is so refreshing. But wait, later I have some pics of a few really weird calkings I just hatched, hahahahahahahaha Have fun sir, FR

I do not have the best computer so it is hard for me to judge this particular snake in the picture. However if the snake has a similar Blue tone to it like the Brooksi do I can definitely agree it can be labeled as Axanthic. Regardless of the lack of other colors....the label the hobbiests have for snakes looking like the waxy blue/purple is Axanthic, and if it is reproduced from normal looking hets that will also help people accept the snake having that label. These Cal Kings are a little harder to pin down when choosing proper names...but what can you do? My bet says when the snake is brought into the hobby it wil be in numbers enough to show people it is indeed what it is supposed to be. Like I said when people see it reproduced and see clutches of Axanthics and normal hets....then it will be easier for us to see. I really hope they are Blue like the Brooksi, and even better....imagine if it is bred to the BHB Ghost which is then relabeled as Hypo and double hets are made leading to a true Ghost Cal King. Now that will be cool. Tom Stevens

Me and Dan, are just happy to have some really cool Cal Kings! If that strange one sheds all of that patterning off, it will still be a cool cal King just the same. We are just having fun with it. Yet we remain open-minded as to the possibilities that new wild collected potential morphs present.

I still consider the father to be hypo as judged against his own peers. We have caught many in the exact same area, and they are not brown, so in regard to the others we have found there, he is hypomelanistic. Now, is it due to a specific genetic trait? Only time will tell. We will have to prove or disprove it out through breeding to really know for sure. But It really does not matter to me as I do not think that everything has to be genetic to be a hypo.

As I have mentioned before, the other individuals in a given population that you are comparing any specimen to play just as large a role in determining if that specific specimen is hypo as the actual specimen.
-----
James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

Yikes. I wrote Me and Dan.
As we all know, it is Dan and I...
-----
James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

FR

It may be because I have a very high resolution screen the pic shows up better. In the pic there is the axanthic with its normal siblings. It is a screaming blue on my screen. Just like the axanthic brooksi and my axanthic (triv triv) rosys. It does not get anymore axanthic than that. The only reason I mentioned the words black and white is because someone said they see yellow. There is no yellows or reds. It's obvious that not all computer screens are created equal.

The guy who has them is someone that has been around for a while and I am sure you know him or of him. He is not interested in sharing (maybe he will change his mind )nor is he interested in taking more pics. I asked him if I could post the pic and he said it was okay. These come from het to het breeding and this year he had a bad year (all slugs except one possible het that hatched). Next year he will have more and in '07 he plans on marketing them. The reason he did not want to show them off yet is for the very reason that is happening here. I talked him into it because if he waits people will chastise him for all of a sudden appearing with some new morph .Sound familiar? ..Your right about these forums . Even the most base of rumors can become a matter of debate.

If someone want to see a better pic then please take the pic I posted and put it on your computer and zoom in on the axanthic in the clutch.

first pic I took of the axanthic San Ignacio rosy that everyone chastised on the forums:

Here is the first pic of a Peanut butter brooksi. This ame pic was shown to Bill and Kathy Love many years back. They looked at it and pronounced it nothing more than a normal hypo. This resulted in the breeder with the photo buying all their remaining related stock resulting in taking the project right out from under their expertise. I later showed a live speciman of the PB to Dr. Bern Bechtel and he could not make heads or tails from them:

One more pic of the axanthic San Ignacio rosys. Now I have had several "experts" on rosys tell me this was nothing more than a black and white triv. :

Hey first pics don't always come out great. Also the breeder did not plan on proving anything with the pic as he is not worried about selling them to cal king afficiandos when they become avaliable. I will however ask him for a more detailed history on how these came about.

Rainer, thanks for the great pics, and information. it is unfortunate that there are people that are so quick to discredit genuine accomplishments, but they are a fact of life, and they will always be around. I would not worry too much about it.
-----
James Wilson
Pacific Coast Herpetological
www.pacificcoastherpetological.com

This is a funny coincidence but you might say your ghost rosys are "related" to the axanthic kings *hint hint*

Opps I meant snow rosys. Damn I am on a roll.

**Hey first pics don't always come out great. Also the breeder did not plan on proving anything with the pic as he is not worried about selling them to cal king afficiandos when they become avaliable. I will however ask him for a more detailed history on how these came about.**

That's what I was asking.

Kerby...

**Neonates will be unleashed in '07 to the buying public.**

Who has them? Why not pics of the adults? Just curious.

**The snake is blue much like the blue in an axanthic brooks king. There is no red or yellows.**

So what separates those from the other cal kings that don't have any yellow?

**It IS an axanthic. These are not new. Just new to you.**

If these aren't new, then why don't we see these advertised for sale? Anywhere..........???

Just because I'm not convinced does not make me jealous...in fact if I saw proof (which you haven't provided - either in pics or info), then I would be interested in getting some - in '07.

Oh, BTW I produced an Albino Chocolate Banana this year. Ask Don Shores.

Kerby...

There is a photo in the Vivaium of an anery/axanthic cal king courtesy of Lloyd Lemke, never heard of what happened to it though.
Is there locality on those?
I would think it would be hard to say for sure in Cal Kings if it's a true axanthic. I think you should breed it to a line of bright yellow Cal Kings to establish without a doubt it is axanthic.
Is it male or female?

My opinion is that that is an axanthic.

VERY NICE!!!!!

As much as it pains me lol I have to agree those look Axanthic. They are distinctly different than the others from the clutch. Ive had Axanthic Brooksi before and thats how they look where its supposed to be white or yellow its light blue.

Keith
-----