Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Ok im new to darts. I haved a green tree forg for about a year now. So now i wont to go all out. I bought a Exo-Terra trem 12x12x18. My first question is flooring. I put gravel on the bottom and then on top of that i put coco fiber and then live moss. T%he plants i put them i a lil biger pots and there in the gravel as well. Is that good. i put in a fogger too and a water pump. how often do i clean the tank i hated clean my old 10gl every other week thats another reson why i wont to go with live moss and plants. i just dont know how long to go before cleaning it.

Now i dont know what frog to go with they all look so cool. i wont a pair or more. But i dont know how many can fit in that tank. I was thinking about a coblat. But i wont one thats bold and where i will see alot. I realy would like a strawberry too. But the most important thing is i wont to see it. My gtf hides alot still today not as bad as when i first go him.

If you have a substantial drainage layer, you do not need to keep your plants in pots. One of the joys of dart frogs is that all you need to clean is the glass, spritz the poop off of the plant leaves and trim excess plant growth when needed. You will need some sort of simply way to drain off the water that accumulates in the drainage area, and hopefully, you have a barrier between this and the cocoas fiber such as a layer of weed inhibitor cloth or something that will keep the cocoanut fiber from filtering down and eventually clogging the drainage layer. A simple way to drain off any excess misting water from the drainage layer is to put a length of aquarium air hose tubing to the bottom in one corner and over the side to a lower level. You can just siphon off the excess into a container, using a 60 cc vet. syringe as a siphon starter and water house plants with this. The plants utilize the "fertilizer" from the frogs and if it is set up right, you end up with a biologically balanced system that needs no complete take-downs and cleaning for years. Be sure you have an enclosed top to hold humidity and prevent escapes. I use hinged glass lids that fit the tank closely and tape down any possible means of escape from the back plastic flap. Some people cover a fitted screen with Saran Wrap. Lighting can vary, and is mostly for viewing and for plant growth. The frogs will need vitamin dusted live food such as fruit flies, which you will want to cultivate, but there are a lot of posts on this already, so a search here may be helpful. Breeders usually supply culture kits and flies as well. Pinhead crickets, springtails and rice flower beetle larvae are other options for some variety, but for most people, fruit flies are the mainstay diet.

Read the care sheets before deciding upon frogs, and do a net search of the various dealers. Saurian and Black Jungle are good sources for both, as well as being reliable frog dealers in my experience. There are others with excellent reputations as well, but these are the only two I have had personal experience with at this time.

D. leucomelas, Phyllobates terribilis are both inexpensive frogs for beginners and get along in groups quite well. Your tank is pretty small, so I wouldn't recommend more than two of the same species, of course. There are other good beginner frogs, but some easy ones are still rather expensive.

What are you using the pump for?
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

I was planing on haveing a waterfall. I read that i could put springtails in the tank befor the frogs. My queston on that is will they over run the tank and how long do i put them in there befor adding the frogs.

I D. Auratus they look really net would they act like D.leucomelas. what are the sizes of both frogs i wont a tinny one. I also returned my tank and going to buy the 18x18x18 or 18x18x24 dont know which one i have room for lol. need to talk it ovre with my gf if i bring home a huge tank i dont know what will happen lol. thanks for all the help.

D. auratus are just about the same size as leucs. Different strains may vary in size, but I'd say the average is about 1 1/2 inches long. I have the blue morph, and they are quite shy, but I understand that most auratus aren't all that secretive.

If you really want the truly tiny guys, the thumbnails are indeed tiny. Most are under an inch, and my D. reticulatus are only about 5/8 inch long. D. imitator (about 3/4 inch) isn't a bad beginner frog except their tiny size, lightening leaps and athletics can be somewhat intimidating. These really need bromeliads on the background such as the Neoregalias. In my experience a group of 4 or 5 is pretty entertaining. Their close relative D. intermedius is similar. I would avoid the pumilios and other thumbnails for your first shot at it.

I think you'll be happier with the larger tank. It's so much easier to plan and build, especially if you are going to have falls and false bottom.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

The springtails won't over run your tank. You may see a lot of them, but they are harmless, and as soon as you introduce your frogs, they will get gobbled up quickly. I would suggest keeping half of them in a separate culture to renew them every once in awhile.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

are D. imitator shy frogs i would like to see them run and move about. and thank all of you for the help. My gf said i cant get the big one until we move so i have to settle with the 12x12x18 just to start off with but she said she'll buy the big one for me on the day we move lol. she's the best gf ever. And once i get the big one the 12x12x18 is going to be used for breeding "well ill try it lol" But yeah i wont a small frog "dont care about price" thats not shy and ative during the day and i will see alot of. so now its down to D. Auratus or D. imitator. you all would know better about these two frogs. so what do you all feel. after this my mind will be made up.

With a pressed cocoas fiber, cork bark or tree fern bark background holding some bromeliads, (Neoregalias are best), plus perhaps a vertical branch such as cypress knee with another bromeliad or two, a couple of vining plants such as Ficus pumilia or repens, Pellionia (davaeuana, argentia, pulchra, or repens), Fittonia sp., etc. your tank would probably hold a group of 3 or 4 imitators. They don't spend much time on the ground, preferring the higher reaches, but a moss substrate makes a nice padding for any wrestling slam-dunks. They are very active in groups, but I find them more shy as single frogs or pairs. If you happen to luck out and get at least one of the opposite sex from a small group you'll be able to watch a great show. I've been told that the imitators are skewed toward males, but mine seem to be toward female offspring so far. While groups aren't conducive to efficient breeding, as a lot of eggs may get messed up by any competing females, you are liable to see a male transport one or two tadpoles to the brome leaves and watch them guard and feed them. The ladies may fight fiercely, but they are quite athletic and no one seems to get either hurt or overly stressed out.
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

I think im going to try the D. leucomelas a pair could i pull off three in my 12x12x18 tank. I wonted a Auratus blue but a few ppl say there quite shy. But D. leucomelas are always moving and active. later ill get some pretty blue ones lol. thanks you for ur help

I wouldn't go with more than 2 leucs in that size, but still build a nice background with bromes and a branch as they will climb and sit in them if the axils are large enough for them to fit their fat little butts into. They seem to enjoy splashing around hunting in a shallow waterway, or climbing gentle waterfalls. I have six in an 80 gallon bow tank with lots of rather larger bromes,(too many, in fact,)with a waterfall, small pool and shallow stream with a lot of smooth rocks. Be sure you have a good supply of fruit fly cultures going before you get them, as these fellows really like to eat. They will also take pinhead or 10 day old crickets, rice flower beetle larvae and springtails as accessory food. They aren't very athletic, being more portly. Fights consist of merely pushing each other about like Sumo wrestlers or sitting on top of each other and rocking back and forth, attempting to tumble the under-frog over rather ineffectively. Fights are rare and short-lived.

In my experience, these guys are usually out and about, but may go through occasional periods of hiding out, which I've been unable to relate to anything in particular except perhaps the shortest day winter months, in spite of good lighting.

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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

thank you so much for the help. I have a 10 gallon now my gf hermet card died should i used that instead. ppl are telling me the exo-terra has lots of flaws. but if i should stick with the exo-terra what could i do with the 10 gal. breed food in it.

I'm not familiar with ExoTerra. What are the flaws? If they leak, that would rule out a waterway or falls. I've only used aquarium tanks of various shapes and sizes. Two leucs would do all right in a 10 gallon as well. You will need to raise fruit flies in either glass jars or deli-cups--I use 32 ounce deli-cups. You will need to renew the cultures at regular intervals, so a 10 gallon tank wouldn't do for flies. Springtails do well in just a covered refrigerator container, as do rice beetle worms. I suppose you could use the 10 gallon for crickets. I just keep mine in a critter-keeper until they've all been fed out, pinheds to the frogs and as they grow larger, to the geckos, and have never attempted to raise them deliberately, although escapees seem to be raising themselves in the cellar, and a few have lived to multiply a bit in the Leopard gecko tank.

Here's a wicked idea--What about 2 leucs in the 10 gallon and 3-4 imitators in the vertical ExoTerra?
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Patty
Pahsimeroi, Idaho

4 D. auratus blue
5 D. galactonotus pumpkin orange splash back
5 D. imitator
6 D. leucomelas
4 D. pumilio Bastimentos
4 D. fantasticus
4 P. terribilis
4 D. reticulatus
4 D. castaneoticus
2 D. azureus
4 P vittatus

man never would of thought of that idea. that sounds great. hey email or IM me sexymexi003@aol.com. i would like to email you and ask questions. do u sale i think im going to start the 10gal right now.