Reptile & Amphibian Forums

No one seems to ever want to answer me, and I really don't feel like having a couple of dead turtles on my hands.

Here's the scoop.
Aug. 14th I got a couple of hatchling red ear sliders. I'm perfectly aware that they're not supposed to be sold under 4 inches, but these guys were a rescue from really horrible conditions. At the time, Booger was the biggest of every turtle there, and Pip was half of his size.

Pip is now the same size as Booger. Booger has not grown. He does not eat. I've seen him eat the fish's food before, but never, ever turtle pellets.

So, question #1: Why won't Booger eat, and is Pip growing too quickly?

Pip also shed the other day. Since then, his shell is not emerald-green like it was- it's sort of light-green, with more noticable black markings.

So question #2: Is his shell normal, is this just a part of shedding?

Also, Pip's shell seems to be arched more than Booger's. I recently read that pellets are very bad for them and causes pyramiding. So now, I'm all paranoid that he's getting too much animal protein. Pip will eat about 7 baby Reptomin pellets a day.

Question #3: Is he getting too much protein, and is it possible his shell is pyramiding due to too many pellets or rapid growth? Or is his shell supposed to arch a little?

They get no vegetables because I can't find any website with specifics, and no one bothers to read my pleas for help.

Question #4: What in the HECK am I really supposed to feed them!?

They're set up in an outside enclosure, they get natural sun and heat. They're in a rubbermaid container so the sun is not filtered. This is florida- water is often a good 80-85 degrees. Sometime this evening my dad and I are moving them to a new spot to allow more sunlight exposure.

Please respond, if not for me but for my little buggers.
Thank you.
First Picture: Pip, Booger
Second Picture: Booger, Pip

I found a site with a lot of food recommendations... Are they accurate?

http://www.resoasis.com/diet.htm

Also, would I just let fruits/veggies sink to the bottom?

there does seem to be something wrong with pip's shell, not sure exactly of the cause.zoomed's aquatic turtle food is good, but while they are still so small i usually feed hagen max turtle gammarus pellets. pyramiing isnt from just pellet foods, its from too much protein, like feeding mostly fish with soem pellets. turtles arent going to grow too fast, however not enough calcium, which should be present in the food and is in the foods i suggested, can cause softshell which can kill. most little turtles have relatively soft shells so its hard to tell if they have it as a condition or just becaus ethey are small. the best tool is prevention. them being in the natural sunlight is best. remember though that hey dont spend all day in the sun and should have shaded areas in the water to escape from the heat. filtration is still important, do you have any in you outdoor enclosure? i dont ever use reptomin for turtles, its just too poor quality. fruits and veggies are more for when they are bigger, 4" at least. hopefully with the right food his shell should be fine. that link you listed sounds good overall, but feeding in seperate contaiber isnt good in my opinion. they still poop in their main enclosure and it can be very stressful for them to be moved all the time. please list any other questions that pop up or i did not answer

You don't know how much of a relief it is that someone answered.

What seems to be wrong with his shell? Like, what gives you the idea that there is?

Are those foods you listed available at... oh let's say, a Petsmart? I really only have a few close stores, and petsmart is probably the best bet when it comes to foods.

Pip's shell used to be soft until about two weeks ago. His shell turned upward around the edges and hardened. They have plenty of shade, and the direct sunlight stops after a few hours, then it is only a little.

In their setup I have a filter that is "designed" for turtles... It does a farely decent job, but whatever it doesn't get I go ahead and scoop out with a net once or twice a day. Food never stays in their tank for more than 15 minutes.

I'll quit with the Reptomin ASAP.

However, one thing you didn't touch base on... any idea why Booger refuses to eat?

not sure on the refusal to feed, try a variety of foods, even if their not the best. its better to eat the wrong stuff than nothing at all. try live things to get his attention. small crickets, guppies, waxworms, anything you can find that might trigger him. the hagen food i think is only at petco, that i remember. mom and pop places will often special order stuff, the big guys wont. or you can get it online. what type of filter is it? fluval are praised by other turtle people but they are too hard to tell if they are backed up and a hassle to maintain. i like whispers. easy to tell when they need to be cleaned and easy to do it. they have internal whispers that suction cup to the inside of tank, not sure how they would do in a rubbermaid container.

The pyramiding happened to my turtles too but it was because they ate about 300 tadpoles. If they don't have enough calcium like my turtles, which seems irreversable, you can feed them romaine lettuce. Regular iceburg lettuce is not good. You can get a mixture at wal-mart, It's on sale here at 2.00 for greenleaf, romaine, and the all bad for turtles iceburg. You can usually see the difference. Its called lettuce trio. Sorry but I'm pretty much being pushed of the computer so I'll post again later. See'ya for now

When mine was a baby she refused to eat anything but live foods. Earthworms and crickets, etc. If yours is lethargic she could have an illness. If she doesnt eat live you should get her to a vet.

I have used it as the staple for my turtles for 8 years.
I raised my hatchlings on it until they were old enough
to start eating greens and veggies.

The key is to avoid overfeeding. Give them enough to eat
in a few minutes time each day but do try other stuff. At
one year of age start feeding it to them about 3 days/week
and on the off days give other things. The key here is
variety. Frozen, thawed shrimp are relished by my turtles
as well soaked dry cat food (until soft). Actually there is
pretty much nothing they will not eat. They eat meat, fruit,
and many types of veggies. I also give them anacharis from
Petsmart. Do not give them regular lettuce. Use only as
a treat if you must.

It sounds to me like you need to separate the turtles when
you feed them. The fact that one is growing too quickly tells
me that the other turtle is not competing for the food for
some reason. Many times it is because the tankmate is too
dominant. I experienced this first hand when my babies were
hatchlings.

Hope this helps.
Linda

when i read the ingrediants for reptimin, it is missing a source for either calcium or vit d3, i think its the vit d3 its missing. their are better turtle foods out there.

I tend to go with the tried and true. It has worked well
for me. If in doubt, you can supplement but I never have
and all 4 of my turtles are very healthy. My 2 RES are
6 years old and 2 Painteds are 10 and 11 years old

I know that Mazuri makes a pretty good product too. I supplement
my tortoise with it but only a few times a week.

Linda

Calcium can be supplimented with a powered suppliment, earth worms, Rosy Reds etc. Vitamin D3 is what you get with the UVB light.

Reptomin is a good product, but should never be the sole source of food. If you are depending on one product to be the food source, you will probably have some sad turtles (not to mention bored). It might be years before you saw any anything, but it would happen. My 2 guys actually have color prefrences when it comes to Romaine Lettuce, and will literaly paddle half of their body straight out of the water to get to an earthworm dangleing above them. They go beserk for those things!! They eat processed food, but turn it down if the other foods are offered.

All this to say, if you give a varity of foods, the few things lacking in any processed food should not be a problem. Variety is the key to a healthy diet for these guys, not some processed wonder pellet.
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Jenea

1:3 Eastern Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

vitamin D3 is a required part of the diet, without uvb you cant metabolise it, which means you cant use calcium either. vit d3 and calcium should be in the diet, and need uvb to actually be used.

And I quote from an online source on reptile husbandry:

"Basically, reptiles need vitamin D3 in their diet in order to effectively absorb dietary calcium. This means that a reptile completely deprived of vitamin D3 could theoretically be overfed calcium, and be able to utilize little if any of it. In captive reptiles, vitamin D3 is going to come from one of two sources, or preferably, a combination of both. The first source, and the one most utilized by wild herps, is exposure to ultraviolet (UV) lighting. When a particular wavelength of ultraviolet light (UVB) hits reptilian skin, a series of biochemical reactions occur which ultimately lead to the animal synthesis of vitamin D3. Everyday household light bulbs WILL NOT produce light in the necessary spectrum. In captivity, the only way your pets will receive vitamin D3 is if they are exposed to unfiltered sunlight, exposed to a reptile bulb (specifically designed to emit UVB), or through dietary supplements."

If given the right exposure, Vitaamin D3 supplements are not mandatory, but can be helpful.
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Jenea

1:3 Eastern Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

you said it, it has to be in the diet, otherwise it cannot be utilized. full spectrum lights do provide adequate uvb for the first six months, after that they are just like every other fluorescent light. if you dont provide vit D3 in the diet, all the sunlight cant utilize it, because its not there.

Did you completely miss the part where it said with sufficient UVB they can synthasis D3 themselves?? Read the whole thing again and do not just look for your "point". And...of course you change the UVB light every 6 months or you are wasting you time even having it up there!!! Having been thgough UVB therapy myself I know exactly what the benefits are and how it helps with Vitamin D. All I am saying is that if you have a proper setup, with UVB lighting maintained in the correct manner, that a vitamin D3 suppliment is not as necessary. Do some research on Vitamin D and UVB, not just how it relates to reptiles. Its is actually quite amazing.
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Jenea

1:3 Eastern Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

we dont need to know about uvb vitd on this website except how it pertains to reptiles. its not going to hurt to use a calcium supplement that that also has vit d3 (not that you need powders for turtles to begin with). this ensures that they get enough. even then they still need uvb. most calcium supplements have vit d3 in them, so if you supplement calcium, you cant help but supplement vit d3. and even if you can get vit d3 and calcium from live foods, thats not reason to use them when it is found in pelleted food. if you only use pelleted food, you take out the risk of exposing your turtles to parasites, bacteria, and other infections. if you use a pellet diet that provides calcium and vit d3, you dont need to supplement either or even worry about varying their diet beyond pellets. i like my turtles too much to risk them to exposure to disease with live foods.

To each their own, but a primarily pellet diet is not healthy. Unfortunately, by the time you figure that out it will be to late. It may be years from now, but it will happen. I am new to RES, but had a Florida Cooter 20 years ago when there was not a lot of info out. A primarily pellet is what shortened his life. If I had only known then what I know now.............
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Jenea

1:3 Eastern Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

do you know exactly what was the problem? pelleted foods have come along way in the past 20 years. most likely they are good as a sole diet nowadays. with live feeder fish they were getting too much protein and started to pyramid.

I don't change mine because it stops emmiting UVB, after about 6 months mine dies anyway.

I've used reptomin for years now as well. For me it and mazuri have worked. But alot of my smaller turtles prefer the reptomin. The zoo med aquatic turtle food works well with larger turtles, but has to float for a long time before it gets soft enough for younger turtles to eat it.
Chris

This is a bit late and maybe no one will see it, but I'll mention it anyway. I was looking at the Reptomin ingredients today and noticed something. Reptomin has cholecalciferol, which is vitamin D3. It's not very high up on the list, but it is there.

where did you find out or how did you know that was vit D3? i never put every ingrediant in google to see what everything is.

It was actually chance that I found out about it. I was at PetSmart and decided to compare the ingredients for turtle pellets because of this thread (I was thinking of switching from ReptoMin). First I looked at Wardley (I think that's what it was; dark green can, anyway), which had vitamin D3 supplements or something like that. Then I looked at ReptoMin and saw no D3. Last I looked at Mazurati (which, interestingly enough, was sitting between the ReptoMin and Wardley) and saw "cholecalciferol (source for vitamin D3)." Cholecalciferol sounded familiar, so I looked at ReptoMin and found it there. Went home, googled it to confirm, then posted here.

Erm... I meant Mazuri, not Mazurati. Turtle food, car... same thing.

thats how i found out about d activated animal sterol, but hadnt seen the other listed that way.

i looked it up(googled it) and see it is true and would like to thank you for correcting me. as you may have seen i have posted an apology to all for the false info i have been giving out.

Wow, that's a lot of information to absorb.

I've tried many different foods for Booger, but nothing is working. Stinky foods, veggies, crickets, fish. Nothing makes him want to eat, all he wants to do is hide. I'll try seperate tanks tomorrow morning.

Somebody ate a fish last night, I think it was Pip or Skuttle (a softshell) And they're going after more tonight... but Booger is not. He completely refuses.

I think Pip is shedding his scutes?

And how can I tell if Pip is too fat? I was feeding twice a day but have gone down to one now. I realised a few days ago that this was obviously too much.

I really need Booger to eat.

Do you have any sort of light on them? How about heat? They require (especially babies) a high UVB output light over their cage...reaching only 6" to 8" from their basking spots (this means also that the light CANNOT be going through any sort of glass....or it will be completely filtered out). Their air temp (ambiently) should be around 80*f....higher at the basking area. They require a place to haul out of the water too.
Their cage area should be the equivalent of a 20g long tank with 3/4 of it water and swimming space and that space NEEDS to be well filtered with a decent submerssible filter.
On top of that, they should not be kept on any sort of gravel....they can swallow peices and become impacted. It also makjes the tank difficult to clean out (which, depending on feeding, should be done once weekly).
They shouldnt really be handled, because that will most likely stress them to the point that they will not eat.
Please remember, these animals are going to grow large (although slowly) and will eventually require somewhere near a 90g sized tank to survive, unless you plan on keeping them outside in a pond year round.
If these guidelines you have followed, and still no eating, a vet check will be needed to check for parasite.
Oh, and for the feeding question, they require a good staple pellet (reptimin is a good basic one) to start, as well as feeder tuffies (goldfish tend to give turtles biotin deficiencies), crickets dusted with calcium powder (calcium is IMPORTANT) and veggies such as peas, collard greens, dandelion greens and turnip greens. Also remember that these guys cannot swallow their food without water, so make sure that they are fed in the swimming area. good luck
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"Brains for dinner, brains for lunch. Brains for breakfast, brains for brunch. Brains for every single meal; why can't we have some GUTS?"-Misfits

1.0 ball python- Azazel
1.0 red blood python-Hiss
1.0 peach phase thayeri-Sancho......MIA
0.1 creamsicle corn- Pandora
0.1 partial stripe ghost corn- Raven
1.0 Sunglow motley corn-Ernie
1.1 hognose- Pricilla and Odd
0.2 leos- Boji and Kodama
0.1 beardie- Indie
1.0 BTS- Griffon
0.1 Iggy- Sunny
0.0.1 crested gecko- Jubeh
0.1 leucistic texas ratsnake-Ojo
0.1 pacific parrolet- Mishka
1.1 cats- Cairo and Oberon
2.0 bettas
0.0.1 goldfish-fishwad

the uv light should be over their dry basking area, slow growth is a matter of opinion, they should be about 4" at one year old. calcium on crickets isnt necessary as their are pellets with enough calcium already in them. i use gravel. large gravel so i havent had them eat it ever, they like to forage through it looking for food, this is a natural habit that shouldnt be discouraged.

Ok...the gravel is a good point. It just makes me nervous on a personal level. It does tho make for a more natural behavior. Also, i do not keep turtles anymore, although i used to run a fish department. I am much more used to the rapid growth of geckoes and snakes, so res do, in my personal opinion,l grow quite slowly. good points made. thanks. jen
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"Brains for dinner, brains for lunch. Brains for breakfast, brains for brunch. Brains for every single meal; why can't we have some GUTS?"-Misfits

1.0 ball python- Azazel
1.0 red blood python-Hiss
1.0 peach phase thayeri-Sancho......MIA
0.1 creamsicle corn- Pandora
0.1 partial stripe ghost corn- Raven
1.0 Sunglow motley corn-Ernie
1.1 hognose- Pricilla and Odd
0.2 leos- Boji and Kodama
0.1 beardie- Indie
1.0 BTS- Griffon
0.1 Iggy- Sunny
0.0.1 crested gecko- Jubeh
0.1 leucistic texas ratsnake-Ojo
0.1 pacific parrolet- Mishka
1.1 cats- Cairo and Oberon
2.0 bettas
0.0.1 goldfish-fishwad

fish dept? than the only thing you dont think grows slow is a pacu? its definitely the fastest growing thing ive dealt with.

River rock gives a great natural look, is way to big to eat, is fairly easy to vaccum, and a bag is pretty cheap at home depot
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Jenea

1:3 Eastern Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

They have no UVB light- They are in direct sunlight from 8 in the morning till about 3 in the afternoon, then from there on out it's still sunny but not directly on top of them, there's a bit more shade.

Their water is pretty cold in the morning but it warms up real nice in the afternoon. This doesn't affect how Pip and Skuttle eat, so why should it be affecting Booger?

The basking area is the air temperature- yesterday it was easily 85-90 degrees, it was a real warm florida day down here yesterday. Pip and Skuttle loved it. Booger didn't.

I tried feeding him stinky tuna and chicken-spread, but again it didn't work. I put him in a seperate container and put in three pellets, and this didn't work either. He hides all day... sometimes he'll swim around some.

I know that they get very large and I'm prepared to deal with it. By then I'll be out on my own and able to house them in a large tank wherever I want.

Their water is changed once a week, and every day I scoop out whatever junk the filter did not catch.

Here's a picture of their enclosure (the water may not seem it, but it's about 4.5-5 inches deep, depending on evaporation):

Living in Florida myself, I know how quickly water can heat up outside. You do know that it is very easy to "cook" these guys?? With water that shallow there is very little room for temp. gradient. The water should be kept at a constant temp. They are also very suseptible to resp. infection when small. The first sign I had that mine was ill was lost appatite. A week of antibiotics and warm temps fixed him right up. The cold, warm, cold, warm might be the problem, and he might not be as healthy as the other two. If your little guy is ill, take him to a vet ASAP. If that is not an option, then keep him in a seperate container with a constant water temp between 82 and 85. 85 would be way to hot for a larger turtle, but for these small guys it works great when they don't feel well. I have used it on my own guy. When all are healthy, I keep the water between 78 and 80.

Good luck. I hope he starts to eat soon.
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Jenea

1:3 Eastern Hognose
0:0:1 Florida Redbelly Snake
0:1 Gulf Coast Box Turtle
1:1 Red-eared Slider
2:0 Cats
1:1 Kids
1:0 Spouse

most baby turtles in the wild dont survive, from predation, disease, and just not being a healthy indivdual, most die. we improve their chances in captivity, but we dont gaurantee success. some individuals are just not up to par. in these cases there is nothing you can do. it may be a good idea to set up your sick one indoors so you can ensure a stable and proper environment.

I'll keep an eye on the water temperature, then. They seem to like it though.

I guess I'll have to get Booger set up inside. I just want him to start eating. Won't that stress him out and make him depressed?

I knew these turtles were a lot of work, but I never took into consideration the possibility of a sick one.

I don't regret it though. I'm hoping to give them good lives.

it well do more damage outside than the stress from moving inside. reptiles arent really capable of any emotions that could lead to depression.

You need to get your turtle to a vet asap. I agree that is could very well be a resp. infection. Something like that can be easily treated, but he will die if you do nothing.

I feed my juvenile male reds on different varieties of food, fish, nightcrawlers, crickets, mealworms, meat, mouse pinkies, and sometimes organ meats. If I feed my him inverts, I will coat them with multivitamin and calcium supplement...how much is depend upon how much he was supplemented before being fed. On this diet, Walley is developing into a find looking, healthy and robust animals. It is very strange to me that he has not wanted eat plant matter yet. I tried offering him some Reptomin and dog food, but to no avail. Perhaps when he is older he will accept vetables, fruits, and turtle food as part of the diet.

I don't know why you can't find specifics on the web, I have.

I have a baby the size of yours. A little less than three inches.

I make a concontion of 1/2 meat, 1/4 greens and 1/4 fruit. Then I add a pinch of calcium powder. Then I blend it all together since my turtle only seems interested in meat.

Make sure that you use good greens. Like broccolli, romain, clover, etc. Iceburg and other types are basically nothing.

I find that my turtle enjoys apple but I still use different kinds of meat, veggies and fruit to change his diet and see what he likes.

When using meat, use lean cuts. Cooked beef, chicken, turkey, whatever you have on hand that is not saucy or salted.

I keep it in the fridge for three days and then I make more. Every morning I spoon out some into his dish and sprinkle some 100% complete turtle nutrition pellets on top. They'll soak up the juice from what you made and this way, your turtle is getting a healthy mix.

This formula is good for babies b/c they require more protien than the adults. As they mature, you should lessen the amount of meat so that it's in equal part to the veggies and fruit.

Too much protien can cause shell deformations which is what might be happening with your turtle. You need to rememedy the situation asap and I would recommend taking your turtles to a vet.

Making sure that they are recieving enough light, with the correct spectrum is important for overall health and to stimulate the appetite. If one of your turtles is not eating, I would also suggest making the water slightly higher than room temp.

If one of your turtles is over eating (if it indeed is b/c they can eat a lot) it shouldn't matter too much as long as they have a large enough tank to swim around in and burn off the food.

If you actually notice obeisity, you can take that turtle out for a daily feeding. But that leaves you with the problem of not being able to leave a food dish for the one that doesn't over eat.

Also, is their dish close enough to the water? Turtles swallow their food under water. Mine will grab mouthfuls and dunk his head.