Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Last weekend my field partner Will Bird and I spent several days herping in western Ky. On a prior visit in the Spring we came across this large wooden frame with a series of tin sheets nailed to it on an abandoned property. We really like big pieces of artificial cover because they present all sorts of possibilities when it comes to attracting snakes. We moved this large piece to a better location a short distance away where there was a better sun angle in hopes it would produce for us on our next trip to the area. We placed it on a slightly smaller piece of frame work that had been out for some time and was mature with many rodent burrows.

As we lifted the top section and laid it back we found the freshly sloughed skin of an adult rat snake. Under the bottom layer was the rat snake itself. We began photographing it when another snake emerged from a burrow from the outer edge of the larger piece that was on top.

We were soon greeted by this good sized kingsnake that appeared to be several days away from shedding itself. We wondered if the kingsnake may well be making a meal of the rat snake in the days to come. It was interesting to us that once the nearby air was filled with rat snake musk from us handling it for pics the king bolted out of the burrow with its tongue flicking. This is just one interpretation but it was an interesting series of events we thought. After pics both snake were carefully placed back where they were originally positioned. Phil

If a snake can track a mouse with its tougue, it would not need you to spread musk to tell that ratsnake was there.

Funny thing, on our sites, the predatory snakes, live with their prey, but do not eat them. They seem to go off a little and consume others of the same species. We find this very curious. A captive analogy, many of us, have experienced many times, putting a live mouse in a cage as a feeder, only to have the snake not consume it. Then we offer a different mouse, that is consumed immediately. I get the feeling, these two behaviors are related. FR

Thanks for the insights Frank. I agree it was merely speculation on our part on why the king was doing what it did. One thing that got our attention was the manner in which the kingsnake reacted. It was less the actions of a disturbed snake that was looking for an escape route and more that of a snake that boldly crawled in our direction with a purpose and tongue flicking. It had the look of a snake that was hungry and was in attack mode. Of course this is only an interpretation also but thats what its body language suggested. It seemed to be so focused on the scent of the rat snake it didn't seem to notice us until we were only several feet apart. I have noticed an almost psychotic feeding response with wild caught kingsnakes that were in my care over the years when offered fresh DOR snakes or culls. I learned long ago while cleaning cages to never handle a corn or rat snake then reach in a kingsnakes cage. Interesting observation you made about the kings at your sites preferring to feed on prey items away from their refuge. Usually what we come across is rodents on the surface and active, in which case no snake is present or rodent burrows and a snake on the surface but no obvious fresh signs of rodent activity. It is very rare for us to find kings and other species of snakes under the same AC at the same time. That is one of the reason we like the very large pieces of AC so much. They afford all sorts of possibilities. Thanks once again, Phil

Phil, Did you ever think that maybe the kingsnake just wanted to be photographed too? Nice report! Makes me wonder how many Eastern Kings I've missed and not realized if they are under the soil in burrows. I wonder if anyone has done some sort of study to see if and how many kings alongs with corns, rats, etc. are actually underneath the soil compared with what is found just as tin/cover is lifted off the ground.

Thanks Sean. I think you bring up a great point. I think many kings will utilize the area beneath the AC but where depends on the prevailing conditions and the particulars on the requirements of the snake in question at any given time. Some examples I have observed. I have seen kings laying under the surface of tin that would be hotter than what would normally be considered optimum. This would include gravid females, snakes with fresh and severe wounds, those digesting recent large meals and prior to shed. My guess is these snakes are seeking elevated temperatures to expedite some biological function. In these examples reproduction, ecdysis or recovering from injury or simply speeding up the digestive process. At other times general thermo-regulation is occuring in the spring and fall of the year when the snake can get additional warmth when the nights are cool and these surface objects heat up rapidly in the morning sunshine. I think much time, especially in the hot and dry summer months is spent below the surface in rodent burrows so the snakes can escape excessive heat and find a more suitable humidity range than is available on the surface. I find this topic to be interesting. Its like each sheet of tin or board has a microhabitat going on beneath it and all we can do is catch a glimpe of the surface activity and make guesses. Phil

Phil why not try making a microhabitat of your own where you CAN observe the activity below surface. You have the time lol!
Seriously. Give it a shot.
:Mark

I only wish I did had the time and the capability to pull it off. Maybe someone could develop a pair of x-ray specs

What lies beneath may well be even more interesting than whats on the surface. Phil

aww come on, Phil... I wanna see all the cool pics you'd get...
When you say "What lies beneath may well be even more interesting than whats on the surface"
well... I have no doubt.
Now get busy.
No, you cannot borrow my x-ray specs..
They're for the mall....
:Mark

A little imagination goes a long way. But I'm with you, to heck with the tin field, lets hit the mall!

Now pass the x-ray specs would you? lol! Phil

Nice report, Phil. I find (or don't find) lots of evidence of lots of animals under a.c., especially if crayfish holes are present. I would imagine many hatchlings use them to keep from dessicating and to overwinter. Also an abundant food supply is near at scale so to speak. I have found broad banded water snakes in the same a.c. as the specks, and I know what will happen if that speck is hungry, but maybe a symbiotic relationship is plausible between some animals? What if the rat snake set off an "alarm" to your presence that the nigra felt compelled to investigate? He lacked the details to make a fight or flight response so he came up for a look. Sounds out there but I can kinda see where Frank may be going with this. Or maybe rat snake wasn't on the menu tonight and the rat snake knew it? Let's wrap our minds around that! As always, great field report with pics! I will be studying the Aransas Wildlife Refuge this fall/winter, as it is near my specks. Good reads: Guidebook to the Aransas NWR and A Naturalists Guide : Aransas by Wayne and Martha McAlister. Should find some great stuff.
Todd Hughes

Thanks Todd. I don't think your idea is so out there. You may have homed in on the right explanation. Thats all we can do is examine the facts at hand and make guesses. I was just throwing out a possibility based on my interpretation of why the snake may have acted the way it did. There seems to always be something interesting going on when we spend time in the field It was unusual in the sense that we very seldom see kings cohabitating with other species. The large surface area covered by the two pieces of AC may have allowed this situation to occur. A couple of other factors to consider that I failed to mention. I believe the rat snake had cast its skin very shortly before it was discovered. The skin was still moist to the touch and pliable. The rat snakes senses may have been duller than usual before shedding but not afterward. Maybe it would have soon detected the potential danger and fled the area. Much like musk I would assume a snake shedding its skin would release lots of scent particles into the air yet apparently the king did not react to this activity. Maybe it was not feeding related? On the otherhand, maybe the sweet fragrence of rat snake musk was too much for the king to resist and this prompted him to action? I have successfully used corn and rat snake musk to scent pinks with for problem feeder hatchling kings. Hard to say but it does all make for interesting conversation! Good luck in Aransas Wildlife Refuge. Sounds like a great opportunity. Look forward to seeing some of those speckled kings! Thanks again for the input. Phil

Hey Phil,
Do ever see the callisgaster in KY cohabitating with getual under AC? Calligaster have become increasingly rare in Bexar county Texas because of habitat destruction, but in the 80's there was a site here where a number of times I turned up to three kings (2 splendida and & 1 calligaster or vice versa) under the same piece of A/C. Usually it was a plywood piece 4'x8' or less in size.

25 years later I have managed to locate the calligaster here again in the county, but in nowhere near the numbers they used to be, and now it "seems" as though the splendida are not in the same fields. I'll have more chances though in October which seems to be one of the best Field Herping months in Bexar county.

Forks

Hi Joe. I don't recall ever seeing a calligaster and a getula under the same piece of AC at the same time here. On rare occasions we have seen them at the same site at the same time. Here both exist in good numbers and their habitat preference seems to overlap broadly. What that usually translates to is on a given day either calligaster OR getula are found at any given site but infrequently at the same time. Usually the sites that harbor both are large sites with many pieces of cover strewn about. I have wondered how they might compete with each other. Phil