Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i just saw a classified for a pastel $575 shipped. by the time i start producing theyll be like $300 fems will be like $1000 scary shizzle

there is lower to go.......

.....remember.......that may be a bad animal.....maybe it won't eat right.maybe they need money.maybe they don't care.....maybe it's ugly........has a bad hemipene.....etc etc etc

that is just one.......I look at classifieds all the time now and I see THE SAME posts everyday......

alot of these guys are going to post and raise the price for the next two years untill they sell an animal for too much money.........a few will throw it out to the world at a lower price...........

there are pastels for all kinds of prices on the net and really cheap in the real world.....

500 male I haven't seen yet....

and a $1000 snake is still good money no matter what it is......

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...........and with that stick....he would dig up cobra and python eggs...............................

A whats a....????
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Regards,

Alan

A what's a ....???? huh?......

what?..........
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...........and with that stick....he would dig up cobra and python eggs...............................

The price drop will begin to drop exponentially as more and more people are able to afford a morph that, with one ugly male and in a year or two, can produce many beautiful offspring.

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Regards,

Alan

is like trying to make money breeding 2 male spiders, it's not going to happen. Supers yeah, for now, but for a small time guy to think he's going to make big $$ off regular pastels is crazy. That's why people sell them so cheap, everyone is selling pastels. Of course you could wholesale your males for 200 and females for about 800 and be happy, but most people want the "full retail price".

I paid 550 for 6 females between 150 and 300 grams, 2 unusual looking males, and my pastel. He's good looking too. Figure it how you want, the 6.2 normals are probably worth at least 150 so i guess you could say i paid 400 for mine.

np

LOL, I was gonna ask you what that was.

Quig

That 6.2 means 6 males and 2 females, right?

So what is wrong with that?

Only cry when you bought a pin......

~OR~

put money in money market see what you get......vs buying a pastel!
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

One of the big/reputable breeders did offer me what he CANDIDLY called "a very average looking" small Male pastel , (but otherwise completely healthy animal) for 500$... If you're willing to take 'irregulars/second quality' there are animals to be had at low prices... depends on what your priorities are....

Do you really think pastels will ever be the price of a normal?
Look at the Dog world, even with Puppy mills A pure Breed always
commands a price. Hopefully will be the same with Ball python Morphs.
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"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

and I would have to say that even though I paid very little for my pastel, I still think he is top quality.

Cole Maas

It seems more and more every day there is a post about the market prices... Is someone trying to cause large scale panic?? Relax, let the market do what it wants, it's goint to whether your cry about it or not.. I don't understand all the fuss. It's common sense that prices are going to go down, it's a pastel, it's like the hypo boa of ball pythons.. Even if by the time you produce pastels, males are 300 and females are 1000, and you have yourself 5-7 clutches, 4 eggs/ clutch, that's 14 pastels, if you had 50/50 sex, it's 9100 you made from spending 900 on your original male pastel plus female breeders which keep in mind you still own and will produce again for you next year... QUIT WHINING!!! The profits are even there if you soley produce normals, compared to the money invested... The market is imaginary, and it can be damaged with the whisper of it crashing.. LEAVE IT ALONE
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Joe Lydon
Got Boids?

N/P DAH
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RicK @ BbI

Ball Boutique,Inc.
Proud sponsor of this forum

.

How many first-time breeders are producing 5-7 clutches from a single male?? I doubt many experienced breeders are able to get that kind of production from a single male. Sure it may happen, but consistently? I see this production scenario time and time again on this forum. I feel its misleading. Are the people writing this info from experience or from what they have read or been told?

Here is another breeding scenario. You breed your male to 7 females. Only two females lay eggs. Let's say one lays 4 (3 fertile 1 slug) and the other lays 5 (2 fertile 3 slugs). Now your working with 5 fertile eggs. You hatch out 2 pastels and 3 normals. Your luck wasn't that great and they are both males. You try and sell them for "market" price and have a hard time.

While the above scenario is a fictitious one, it is more probable than the 14 morphs everyone can produce with their 10 month old male. I am sorry I just think its misleading.

Thirty three pastels. My last 1.2 just sold on KS in three days at about $100 under "retail market price." You guys complain, I think I'll just keep making babies and accepting paypal payments.

Christy

Question for you now. What do you do for the next 10 months? What do you have to sell? What do did you keep back? And how do you plan on making the same money that you did this year IF you make the same 33 Pastel and the price keeps falling?
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GOD Bless
Andre
ASFReptiles

http://imageevent.com/asfreptiles

HI Andre,

First, this is not my day job and never will be. I don't need to sell anything the next ten months. I have other priorities .

My snake room is 12 X 15 and my rat building is about the same - space is precious to me, so I sell what I am not going to keep for my own personal use and enjoyment (yes, I did keep some female pastels as I always do). I didn't sell/trade my animals out of panic, I sold them for the sake of practicality. I don't have alot of space and don't want to keep expanding my collection's size by leaps and bounds. For me part of taking good care of my animals is not having more on hand than my limitied facilities allow.

As far as next year (since you asked), I obtained a adult male mojave this summer. He's 800g now, and He'll be the main co-dom I run this year. I'll still make some pastels - some girls I will keep and the rest I will sell wholesale and retail. If my season goes well, I'll keep some mojaves and sell the rest for cash and also trade them. I'm thinking I want another co-dom male but also recessive females - at the top of my list are a genetic stripe, a clown, a caramel and pieds.

Meanwhile, I have some other things in the works as well, including hopefully producing a granite albino baby (my partner and I own the granite albino with Ralph). My partner and I own a pair of adult hets and the original snake at Ralph's should go this year as well, bred to one of her sons.

Well, that's probably too much info, but you asked. If anyone has any thoughts on the above plan, I'd be happy to hear them .

Thanks, Christy

Your 1st post did not state you sold most of yours whole sale. You said "My last 1.2 just sold on KS in three days at about $100 under "retail market price." I took it like most others that you sold all 33 of them on KS but accepted $100 less than everyone else or "retail market price".
My only thought was that you sold out in a short amount of time, less than 3 months, and my conclusion was the prices were too low.

Good job for what you goals were.

Was it KS - "ball pythons" or "Wholesale"

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GOD Bless
Andre
ASFReptiles

http://imageevent.com/asfreptiles

Wow, that's at least $15,000? That's what I'm talkin about....

np
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Joe Lydon
Got Boids?

I'm not saying can't be done. I just think it is unlikely for first time breeders. How many females have you been successful in breeding to a male?

>>I'm not saying can't be done. I just think it is unlikely for first time breeders. How many females have you been successful in breeding to a male?

If you read correctly in my previous headline, you'd see that I stated "I've heard stories of ADULT males handling 15 females in one season".. I said nothing about first time, juvinile males.. But an 8 month or so old male should be able to handle 5 females without a problem if you know what you're doing, and yes, obviously there are plenty exceptions where a male won't even breed 2 females..
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Joe Lydon
Got Boids?

But even if you did only produce two males if you sell them for even a little over half what you paid for their father a year or two before you have broken even your first breeding year. From then on it's gravy. I haven't been following super close but I don't think pastels have dropped quite that much in price the last few years.

I also don't think the price will continue to drop at the same rate, much less exponentially. There are already people who don't seem to think $500 snakes are worth producing. As the price of pastels gets lower there will be fewer breeders focusing on producing them (they could use their females for more expensive morphs) and they will eventually steady out at the perceived cost of production. They might be pretty close already.

I partially agree - but as long as pastels keep making super pastels there will be plenty of people producing them and as long as there are super pastels there will be plenty of pastels as a by product of everything people are trying to mix with them. The plain ole pastel's days may be limited - but between supers and all the hot mixes we are seeing being done with them - it's obvious they are a must have for everyones collection.

I think it's odd that people keep saying that there is this great big huge untapped market out there (general public) due to morphs being too expensive for most people - yet when the price drops to where people can actually afford to buy them to just enjoy them without having to breed to recoup their investment - people act like its going to break the market. Anyone else see the dichotomy?
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

.

"The profits are even there if you soley produce normals..."

End of discussion.

Chris
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mean people suck

I will be very happy to see that the pastels are at thier lowest..I will be very happy to see that I will be able to get $1000 per female for years to come...why arnt you understanding the nature of your investment...abx

because it an affordable morph that appeals to me. I am gratified just watching the snake eat and grow. When he does begin his duties, I intend to trade his offspring for other snakes. I have a lot of old-timer friends that talk about the days when a snake didn't have the money value, it was more "I'll trade you this for that" and so on. The way I see it, paying what I paid for my pastel opens up the door for me in the future. I can't front the cash for a mojave or spider, but eventually I may be able to trade my way into them, and by that time they won't be worth the same money. Either way, I'll be able to have those snakes in my collection, and be able to breed some snakes of my own. To me, the gratification comes from seeing the little babies pip out of the eggs. I was lucky enough to breed ball pythons when I was 11 years old, I had 1 male and 3 females(all laid fertile clutches and I had a 100% hatch rate). I'm quite sure all the females were over 3000 grams, and I traded them for a pair of Macklot's pythons about 7 years ago lol. Now I look back and would kill to have them to this day, but I have to start off fresh.

Ball pythons and gambling are a lot alike. If you are looking to make money it is easy to get let down, but there is a chance of a good return. But, just as with gambling, if you are just having a little fun you will most likely never be let down, and even if you spent a little money you had a good time.

Cole Maas

Cole Maas

This is still BY FAR better than almost any investment (legal) out there. You will make better interest on your money in snakes (of all things?) than you could hope to anywhere else. If you made 5-10% in any other investment in a year you would be thrilled. Wake up! Get more! How easy do you think it will be to sell pastels when they hit every pet store in the US?I look forward to them hitting $200 because they will be a lot easier to sell than they are now. Right now everyone is sweating that next "big drop" they will take. By then no one will be worried about their price falling and will just buy them because they are cool and affordable.
Reptile Basics Inc

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Rich Goldzung
Reptile Basics Inc
www.reptilebasics.com

If it is not very pretty don't expect to sell it for top buck in an environment of pretty Pastels.

I am selling my REAL Lemon Pastels for very good money and I can sell every one between $1,700-2,500 EA.

IT may just be time to refine things a bit.....

I still think the girls are GOLD!

SATAN
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www.newenglandreptile.com

It's just like with dogs...
There is a customer who will pay top dollar for the 'show quality' offspring of a Westminster champion.... when they could easily aquire the same breed at a mall petstore for 1/4 the price.
There are customers who would like to, but don'r have the cash
and there are those that don't appreciate the difference.

Pastels are an amazing foundation or entry level morph.. there should be enthusiasts at all ends of the spectrum... Relax!

.

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"There is a fine line between a hobby and mental illness"
COLD BLOOD.........WARM HEART

If people won't buy at the retail price, stay firm. The value will only increase with age, but that is just my opinion.
thanks
tony butler