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Joliff got bit by one of his hots!

duffy Sep 16, 2005 04:23 PM

I was just sitting here surfing & my wife was watching tv when she said, "A Marion County man just got bit by one of his rattlesnakes." I said, "It's not Mike Joliff, is it?"...Knowing that he lives just north of me in Marion.

Anyway, apparently it WAS Mike. I didn't get the whole scoop. They acknowledged that he had "All the proper permits" to keep hots. I heard something about "unconsciouss" but did not get the details. There may be something on the hot forum about this. I will post after watching the news that comes up in about 40 minutes. Let's hope Mike's OK. He's a good guy, one of us, with great ratsnakes. Will keep you updated as the Ohio news unfolds. Duffy

Replies (10)

Bam171bam Sep 16, 2005 06:33 PM

Any word on Mike yet?

duffy Sep 16, 2005 06:57 PM

The local news reported that he was taken to the hospital in critical condition. Sounds like they took him down to Columbus instead of treating him in Marion. I assume that Columbus has a better supply of antivenom, etc. I didn't get much more than that. Will post updates, hopefully telling all that he is OK. Better yet, maybe we'll get the story from Mike soon. Duffy

ratsnakehaven Sep 17, 2005 06:13 AM

>>The local news reported that he was taken to the hospital in critical condition. Sounds like they took him down to Columbus instead of treating him in Marion. I assume that Columbus has a better supply of antivenom, etc. I didn't get much more than that. Will post updates, hopefully telling all that he is OK. Better yet, maybe we'll get the story from Mike soon. Duffy

Our thoughts are with him today. Let us know as soon as you can about his recovery.

Terry Cox
Afton, MI

duffy Sep 17, 2005 06:32 AM

Starts out talking about him "fighting for his life" and goes on to say that last night he was in "serious" condition. I also posted on the venomous forum, and someone there tells me that Mike is now conscious and talking so it sounds like he's improving. The article in this morning's paper quotes an authority on Western Diamondback bites, concluding that "most patients recover" from them. I suspect we'll be getting the story straight from Mike soon. Duffy

duffy Sep 17, 2005 12:02 PM

One of the posters in the venomous forum says he's "doing fine now" ... Let's hope he comes out of it with all 10 digits! Duffy

draybar Sep 17, 2005 06:07 PM

>>One of the posters in the venomous forum says he's "doing fine now" ... Let's hope he comes out of it with all 10 digits! Duffy

I was just wondering how he could reach into a rattle snake cage to get a python.
He was reportedly showing a python to a prospective customer and reached into "an" enclosure to retrieve another python when he was bitten by the diamondback.
That sounds like a sloppy mistake.
Don't get me wrong... I am glad he is OK and I am not trying to badmouth him, I am just wondering how he could make such a strange mistake.
I am also worried about the signal that may send to the many people opposed to keeping venomous species or any snakes for that reason.
It just provides more fuel to their campaigns to take our rights to keep these animals away.
just curious
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

duffy Sep 17, 2005 06:53 PM

If the information reported is accurate, it does sound like a sloppy mistake. I suspect we will hear the whole story from Mike very soon. And, yes, each time this happens the public gets to shake their collective fingers at all us "weirdos" and say "We told you so!"

One of the themes going on in the venomous forum right now is how we all can get sloppy and careless...Whether regarding handling hots, driving a car, or just about anything. It is a reminder that one brief unthinking moment can be devastating. So the lesson is: Be careful out there. Duffy

ratsnakehaven Sep 18, 2005 06:38 AM

Good point, Duffy. As humans we are all prone to error.

Remember all, he has a large number of animals, and in his enthusiasm he tragically miscalculated which cage he was reaching into. This is an error which could occur with any number of herpers who work with hots. I'm really glad he's recovering, but I'm also concerned how the public perceives what happened. Look at the good things he did.

He took precautions. He had a plan in case he got bit. His friend pretty much knew how to take care of him and there was some antivenom on hand, I believe the article said. He had the necessary permits and didn't break any laws or have illegal snakes.

I think it's important to try portray what we're doing to the public as something that's not only a hobby, but also positive or beneficial in some way. For instance, I have to justify my pet snakes constantly to my peers and parents where I teach, so I try to make it work as a teaching tool and learning experience for all involved. They want to know why?

Luckily, I've never been envenomated by a snake, although I've been bitten on leather gloves before, as I do field work with massasaugas. The most tragic thing that's happened to me, is that I've had a fifth grade student get bit by a massasauga on the finger when he picked it up. The student had to go to emergency and ended up losing the tip of his finger after gangreen set in there. Since that experience I've really pushed safety with my students and I now also teach a venom class in science. A learning experience was had by all at a great expense, but luckily noone died.

When we deal with snakes we have some responsibility, and if we work with hots, I think we have a lot of responsibility. It is no small thing.

Terry
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Ratsnake Haven...researching ratsnakes since 1988

Ratsnake Haven Group...an information providing list site.

draybar Sep 18, 2005 09:12 AM

>>If the information reported is accurate, it does sound like a sloppy mistake. I suspect we will hear the whole story from Mike very soon. And, yes, each time this happens the public gets to shake their collective fingers at all us "weirdos" and say "We told you so!"
>>
>>One of the themes going on in the venomous forum right now is how we all can get sloppy and careless...Whether regarding handling hots, driving a car, or just about anything. It is a reminder that one brief unthinking moment can be devastating. So the lesson is: Be careful out there. Duffy

We definitely tend to get complacent in anything we do with regularity.
I work in a steel fabrication plant and I have to get on people daily.
Grinding without goggles
placing their hands under the ram on break presses (machines that bend steel)
similar things don't seem like anything at the time but it only takes one split second and one mistake.
No one believes it will "happen to them"
we had a guy loose an eye a few years ago because he wasn't wearing safety goggles when he should have been.
So in complete agreement with Duffy..
We seriously need to be carefull out there.
Basically why I don't handle hots.
If you handle snakes, sooner or later you will get tagged.
If you handle hots, sooner or later you will get tagged by a hot.
Just not worth it for me

anyway I still hope Mike is OK and the public in his area forgets about it quickly
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"resistance is futile"
Jimmy (draybar)

Draybars Snakes

_____

goini04 Sep 17, 2005 08:22 AM

Man hospitalized after snakebite
Marion breeder in serious condition
Saturday, September 17, 2005
Holly Zachariah
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
With 200 snakes inside his Marion home, Michael Jolliff has been bitten plenty of times.

This time, something went terribly wrong.

Maybe the Western diamondback rattler struck a vein Thursday night, maybe it sent a particularly massive dose of venom coursing through Jolliff’s bloodstream.

All anyone knows for sure is that the snake breeder now lies in a Columbus hospital bed, unconscious, fighting for his life.

Kentucky Reptile Zoo Director Jim Harrison houses one of the world’s largest collections of venomous snakes and has been a consultant on bites for more than 20 years. He’s met Jolliff.

Harrison said he was saddened but not surprised to hear about Jolliff’s latest reaction.

"That’s the problem with snakebites, you can’t pigeonhole them," Harrison said. "Each one is very different."

Marion police say Jolliff — who has long kept snakes inside his home in northwestern Marion — was showing Ray Smelzer, a friend and potential customer, a python just after 11 p.m.

Jolliff reached into a cabinet to get another and grabbed the Western diamondback rattler instead, authorities said. The snake bit Jolliff’s thumb.

"He told Smelzer that he’d been bit, and that he’d better get him to a hospital," said Lt. Dave Clark, of the Marion Police Department. "He grabbed some serum, but we don’t know if he got a chance to use it."

The pair left the house immediately, Clark said, but by the time they arrived at the closest Marion fire station, Jolliff, 32, was unconscious.

Late last night, he was listed in serious condition at the Ohio State University Medical Center.

The number of snakebites in the United States each year is not known — the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention don’t require reporting — but experts estimate it could be as high as 10,000 and rising. The number of deaths resulting from such bites, however, is fewer than 10 each year.

Two Ohioans died last year from bites.

Jolliff has held an Ohio Department of Natural Resources’ permit to own native species since 2002. In 2003, however, he pleaded guilty to state wildlife misdemeanor violations for failing to keep proper records and for failing to properly tag a reptile.

Exotic animals — such as the Western diamondback — are regulated locally. Marion has no law governing the housing of snakes, said Kandy Klosterman of the department’s Division of Wildlife.

Harrison, who extracts snake venom as many as 1,000 times a week for serum, said even if Jolliff had the proper serum at his home, it likely wouldn’t have helped immediately.

"In some cases, for some snakes, it takes as much as 50 vials intravenously," Harrison said. "The most important thing is to . . . get to a hospital and help them understand exactly who to call and what to do."

Harrison has been bitten many times, more than once by a Western diamondback. The poison from that snake — which is the second-most common venomous snake in the United States — prevents blood clotting and attacks the muscles. The patient usually recovers.

Bites, he said, are just something snake owners get used to.

"If you play with guns, eventually you could get shot," he said. "If you handle snakes, eventually you could get bit. It’s a risk."

hzachariah@dispatch.com
Michael Jolliff Snakebite

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Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

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