Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Got bits & pieces from the local news. They used the word "critical" and said that he was unconscious at one point. I know him from the ratsnake forum & the Ohio show. I'm not a hot keeper, so I'll ask you all... How bad is a diamondback bite? If they got him the right stuff in time I assume he'll be OK. I posted on the ratsnake forum, as he is there often. Good guy...Fine animals. Wish him well. Be careful. Duffy

I am an Ohio resident himself. It is really sad to hear. I hope he is ok.
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Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

Geeze...

I know Mike too...shoot!! Hope he's doing well.

Al
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You can take the snake out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of the snake.

Same here. Mike got some of his animals from me and vice a versa. He has spent several days here visiting me in Texas. I hope all is ok. If there are any updates please post them here. Mike is defintely one of the good guys.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

Duffy had posted an update on the Ratsnakes forum. He said that Mike is in critical condition at a hospital here in Columbus. I have been searching through the news and can't find anything myself or online.

Chris
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Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

Thanks Chris. Keep us posted.
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Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

The word on the street is he is improving, conscious and speaking.

As a fellow Ohioan, I hope everything works out for the best. I do not know him personally, but I have only heard good things from people I respect and trust. I tend to think of myself as careful and respectful of hots. With this in mind, the last few bites that have occured locally I have dismissed, telling myself that the keepers were irresponsible, ill-prepared and not of the state of mind or lifestyle to be interacting with venomous snakes. This one really hits home though, and it serves as a powerful reminder that accidents do happen and that I must reevaluate my practices to ensure I am acting accordingly. How many times have I crept too close, going for that perfect shot in the field, fooled by the animal's seemily docile nature?

Jason

...starts out talking about him "fighting for his life" but later states that he was in "serious condition" last night. Yesterday's news said he was "critical". Later in the article, an expert on Western Diamondbacks talked about the effects of being bitten by this particular snake, concluding that "most patients recover"...Let's hope that Mike is back on these forums very soon.

The article suggested that Mike reached into a cage thinking that he was going to show someone another kind of snake, but grabbed the diamondback instead. This scenario was also reported on the local news. Be careful. It's so easy to have just a brief moment of carelessness. Not just with HOTS, but in everything we do...Driving down the road, climbing up a ladder.

Let's wish Mike the best and all try to keep ourselves safe.
Duffy

Hi
does any body know of the exact sp that bit him?
Thanks

John
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"Its no help to hide behind the statement that snake bite accidents are a rarity and that the average Dr seldom or never will treat one. For the bitten patient, it is a matter of life or death, and the rarity of the event is of no interest to him."

n/p

Joliff is doing fine now. Ronnie

Where did you find the further information on him?

Thanks,

Chris
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Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

n/t
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Venomous snakes---best hobby on earth!
Bill Huseth

n/p

Man hospitalized after snakebite
Marion breeder in serious condition
Saturday, September 17, 2005
Holly Zachariah
THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH
With 200 snakes inside his Marion home, Michael Jolliff has been bitten plenty of times.

This time, something went terribly wrong.

Maybe the Western diamondback rattler struck a vein Thursday night, maybe it sent a particularly massive dose of venom coursing through Jolliff’s bloodstream.

All anyone knows for sure is that the snake breeder now lies in a Columbus hospital bed, unconscious, fighting for his life.

Kentucky Reptile Zoo Director Jim Harrison houses one of the world’s largest collections of venomous snakes and has been a consultant on bites for more than 20 years. He’s met Jolliff.

Harrison said he was saddened but not surprised to hear about Jolliff’s latest reaction.

"That’s the problem with snakebites, you can’t pigeonhole them," Harrison said. "Each one is very different."

Marion police say Jolliff — who has long kept snakes inside his home in northwestern Marion — was showing Ray Smelzer, a friend and potential customer, a python just after 11 p.m.

Jolliff reached into a cabinet to get another and grabbed the Western diamondback rattler instead, authorities said. The snake bit Jolliff’s thumb.

"He told Smelzer that he’d been bit, and that he’d better get him to a hospital," said Lt. Dave Clark, of the Marion Police Department. "He grabbed some serum, but we don’t know if he got a chance to use it."

The pair left the house immediately, Clark said, but by the time they arrived at the closest Marion fire station, Jolliff, 32, was unconscious.

Late last night, he was listed in serious condition at the Ohio State University Medical Center.

The number of snakebites in the United States each year is not known — the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention don’t require reporting — but experts estimate it could be as high as 10,000 and rising. The number of deaths resulting from such bites, however, is fewer than 10 each year.

Two Ohioans died last year from bites.

Jolliff has held an Ohio Department of Natural Resources’ permit to own native species since 2002. In 2003, however, he pleaded guilty to state wildlife misdemeanor violations for failing to keep proper records and for failing to properly tag a reptile.

Exotic animals — such as the Western diamondback — are regulated locally. Marion has no law governing the housing of snakes, said Kandy Klosterman of the department’s Division of Wildlife.

Harrison, who extracts snake venom as many as 1,000 times a week for serum, said even if Jolliff had the proper serum at his home, it likely wouldn’t have helped immediately.

"In some cases, for some snakes, it takes as much as 50 vials intravenously," Harrison said. "The most important thing is to . . . get to a hospital and help them understand exactly who to call and what to do."

Harrison has been bitten many times, more than once by a Western diamondback. The poison from that snake — which is the second-most common venomous snake in the United States — prevents blood clotting and attacks the muscles. The patient usually recovers.

Bites, he said, are just something snake owners get used to.

"If you play with guns, eventually you could get shot," he said. "If you handle snakes, eventually you could get bit. It’s a risk."

hzachariah@dispatch.com
Michael Jolliff Snakebite

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Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

MARION STAR (Ohio) 17 September 05 Snakebite victim in critical but stable condition (Kurt Moore)
Marion: Reaching into the wrong drawer may be responsible for what became a Marion snake breeder's nearly fatal encounter with one of the country's most dangerous venomous snakes.
Michael Jolliff, 32, 483 Silver St., was listed in critical but stable condition at 5 p.m. Friday at Ohio State University Medical Center. He was flown by MedFlight from Marion General Hospital for treatment of a western diamondback rattlesnake bite.
According to Marion Police Department reports, Jolliff had been showing snakes to a friend interested in buying one and was returning one to its cage when he turned and said he was "hit hard." He called 9-1-1 on the way to the hospital when a dispatcher advised him to have his friend, Roy Smetzer, stop at the Marion Fire Department for more immediate treatment.
Police reports said he appeared to be unconscious as medics rushed him to a waiting squad.
Jolliff's wife, Ashley Jolliff, told police she believes he was bitten because he opened the wrong drawer while trying to get out another snake.
It was the second time he had been bitten, but this time it was more severe. Ashley Jolliff said a snake had "grazed" him three years ago but it had been a "dry" bite that didn't release any venom into his bloodstream.
Marion General Hospital has treated snake bites in the past, but emergency department director Dr. Paul Culler said it is rare.
"There is no Ohio physician used to treating that type of bite," he said. "It's not like people have to worry about this snake biting them in their back yard."
Police said Ashley Jolliff told them she and her husband have about 200 snakes, half of them venomous. Ohio Department of Natural Resources wildlife agent Bill Runnells said Michael Jolliff has the proper state permits to raise and sell snakes native to Ohio.
He said, however, that ODNR only has jurisdiction over snakes native to the state and the western diamondback rattlesnake is not indigenous to Ohio.
"What he mostly sells is black rat snakes," Runnells said.
Bob Myers, director of New Mexico's American International Rattlesnake Museum, said western diamondback rattlesnakes are one of the more defensive types of rattlesnakes.
"If they feel threatened they will bite," he said.
Western diamondbacks are responsible for most human deaths each year primarily due to the animals' popularity which brings them into contact with humans more often, according to Myers.
He advises his employees to use proper handling tools and to never come into direct physical contact with the snakes. Violations against policy have led to immediate job loss.
"You try to never be in a situation where you need to touch it," Myers said.
Marion Law Director Mark Russell said he reviewed the case but did not believe there were any criminal violations. While the city has a law regarding dangerous animals not native to the state, he said it does not prohibit people from possessing such animals.
Owners are required to notify law enforcement if the animal escapes, which Jolliffs' snake did not.
*What can happen*
Western diamondback rattlesnakes are one of the country's most dangerous venomous snakes, but not because of the potency of its venom. When you are as big as the western diamondback rattlesnake, reptile experts say you have a lot of venom on stock.
Calling it "hemotoxic," Cleveland Metroparks Zoo reptile keeper Brad Poynter said the snake's venom attacks a person's blood stream and surrounding tissues. Marion General Hospital emergency department director Dr. Paul Culler said swelling caused by the venom can obstruct the airways and cause a person to have trouble breathing.
He said the bite can cause a person to go into anaphylaxis shock, defined by MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia as a severe, whole-body allergic reaction.
Wildlife experts say hundreds of people are bitten by western diamondback rattlesnakes each year. American International Rattlesnake Museum director Bob Myers estimated that one in every 1,000 western diamondback rattlesnake bites are fatal and said they cause more deaths each year than any other rattlesnake.
While its venom is weak compared to that of a cobra or a true viper snake, Myers said it has a large quality of venom stored up because of its size.
Myers said rattlesnakes can control how much of their venom they use. He said the majority of snake bites are "dry bites," which means no or little venom was injected into the victim's bloodstream.
"They can kill an adult pretty easily if they use a full dose," he said.
Snakebite victim in critical but stable condition

>>MARION STAR (Ohio) 17 September 05 Snakebite victim in critical but stable condition (Kurt Moore)
>> Marion: Reaching into the wrong drawer may be responsible for what became a Marion snake breeder's nearly fatal encounter with one of the country's most dangerous venomous snakes.
>> Michael Jolliff, 32, 483 Silver St., was listed in critical but stable condition at 5 p.m. Friday at Ohio State University Medical Center. He was flown by MedFlight from Marion General Hospital for treatment of a western diamondback rattlesnake bite.
>> According to Marion Police Department reports, Jolliff had been showing snakes to a friend interested in buying one and was returning one to its cage when he turned and said he was "hit hard." He called 9-1-1 on the way to the hospital when a dispatcher advised him to have his friend, Roy Smetzer, stop at the Marion Fire Department for more immediate treatment.
>> Police reports said he appeared to be unconscious as medics rushed him to a waiting squad.
>> Jolliff's wife, Ashley Jolliff, told police she believes he was bitten because he opened the wrong drawer while trying to get out another snake.
>> It was the second time he had been bitten, but this time it was more severe. Ashley Jolliff said a snake had "grazed" him three years ago but it had been a "dry" bite that didn't release any venom into his bloodstream.
>> Marion General Hospital has treated snake bites in the past, but emergency department director Dr. Paul Culler said it is rare.
>> "There is no Ohio physician used to treating that type of bite," he said. "It's not like people have to worry about this snake biting them in their back yard."
>> Police said Ashley Jolliff told them she and her husband have about 200 snakes, half of them venomous. Ohio Department of Natural Resources wildlife agent Bill Runnells said Michael Jolliff has the proper state permits to raise and sell snakes native to Ohio.
>> He said, however, that ODNR only has jurisdiction over snakes native to the state and the western diamondback rattlesnake is not indigenous to Ohio.
>> "What he mostly sells is black rat snakes," Runnells said.
>> Bob Myers, director of New Mexico's American International Rattlesnake Museum, said western diamondback rattlesnakes are one of the more defensive types of rattlesnakes.
>> "If they feel threatened they will bite," he said.
>> Western diamondbacks are responsible for most human deaths each year primarily due to the animals' popularity which brings them into contact with humans more often, according to Myers.
>> He advises his employees to use proper handling tools and to never come into direct physical contact with the snakes. Violations against policy have led to immediate job loss.
>> "You try to never be in a situation where you need to touch it," Myers said.
>> Marion Law Director Mark Russell said he reviewed the case but did not believe there were any criminal violations. While the city has a law regarding dangerous animals not native to the state, he said it does not prohibit people from possessing such animals.
>> Owners are required to notify law enforcement if the animal escapes, which Jolliffs' snake did not.
>> *What can happen*
>> Western diamondback rattlesnakes are one of the country's most dangerous venomous snakes, but not because of the potency of its venom. When you are as big as the western diamondback rattlesnake, reptile experts say you have a lot of venom on stock.
>> Calling it "hemotoxic," Cleveland Metroparks Zoo reptile keeper Brad Poynter said the snake's venom attacks a person's blood stream and surrounding tissues. Marion General Hospital emergency department director Dr. Paul Culler said swelling caused by the venom can obstruct the airways and cause a person to have trouble breathing.
>> He said the bite can cause a person to go into anaphylaxis shock, defined by MedlinePlus Medical Encyclopedia as a severe, whole-body allergic reaction.
>> Wildlife experts say hundreds of people are bitten by western diamondback rattlesnakes each year. American International Rattlesnake Museum director Bob Myers estimated that one in every 1,000 western diamondback rattlesnake bites are fatal and said they cause more deaths each year than any other rattlesnake.
>> While its venom is weak compared to that of a cobra or a true viper snake, Myers said it has a large quality of venom stored up because of its size.
>> Myers said rattlesnakes can control how much of their venom they use. He said the majority of snake bites are "dry bites," which means no or little venom was injected into the victim's bloodstream.
>> "They can kill an adult pretty easily if they use a full dose," he said.
>>Snakebite victim in critical but stable condition
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Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

Look guys!!

Lets just cut out the speculation on what actually happened. I too have been thinking about what happened and how it could have been prevented but I'm not going to guess. I'm not going to talk about it now.

I really respect Mike and his abilities as a keeper. Let's just focus our energy on his quick recovery. He will tell us what happened when he returns to the forum.

Al
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You can take the snake out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of the snake.

I didnt really mean to incinuate that he is irresponsible or anything. From what I hear from everyone he is a very experienced keeper and handler. Just the story from the media and everything doens't make sense...at least to me. I agree that we should all wait and hope for his safe return to the forums! Perhaps then, we can hear what really happened.

Best Wishes,

Chris

P.S> To the poster above and everyone else on the forum....I apologize for my harsh tone. It does irritate me when someone attacks another's post without fully reading and understanding their post first. However, I suppose that I should have handled that in a more diplomatic manner.

Best Wishes.
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Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

Well,

I do know he allows a Bothrops asper I gave him get loose once, and ended up stepping on it and killed it. It was a snake he was too deliver to a customer of mine in Michigan. In that regard, I'd be a little suspect...

MCH