Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have been trying to keep twistneck turtle for 3 years now.
I do everything right. Temps, pH levels, lighting, foods, filtering and water changes. I heavily filter the water with charcoal and ammonia removers.
No matter what I do, I cannot beat fungal infections of the skin.
Does anyone else have this problem? Or is there someone that keep twistnecks successfully that can offer some advice, or maybe help me find what I am missing?

You have to give something to get something. I recall the saying going that way.

Without stating any parameters - pH, temperature, nitrogenous waste levels, hardness, or how often any of those measurments are checked, food, setup details (lighting, basking, substrate, hide spots, etc.), the source from which you got your animals, treatments they may have received, or anyting else - I don't know how helpful anyone's comments may be.

Figure, if you are doing everything right, why are you still failing after three years? There's always a reason for any kind of malady, but to figure it out, clues must be shared.

pH ranging from 5.0-6.4
ammonia pellets in the filter, cleaned weekly or replaced.
basking spot. high 80's--basking spot...flat slate slab
land area- same river rock as the substrate...approx 1/3 of the total area
water depth- less than 4"
30 gal turtle tank ( cut out sides for filter )
UVB source Zoo Med 5.0 flourescent
air temps high 70's -low 80's day night- low 70's
ambient room temps mid 70's all the time
ambient room humidity P
substrate-thin layer of washed river rock
filter whisper 30 biological and mechanical filtration.
food- superworms reptomin rosy reds silverside minnows and whatever else this particular turtle can fit in it's mouth
full water change weekly, pH adjusted with pH Down.
No way to check nitrogenous waste.
Wild caught turtle...was living in an alligator tank when purchased.
treaments so far have consisted of dry docking and covering the area with betadine.
no sign of other illness such as RI. no swollen eyes, no swollen ear areas.
Only sign of illness is this white fungal type areas on the legs.
Sleeps and basks a lot, until it is feeding time, then eats like a pig.
My name is Bob I live in CT, it is Sept. turtle was purchased in Aug.
I can't think of anything else I can mention.
I've fulfilled your request for info...so now what?

That was a good list. Thanks. I didn't ask about water temp, or how it's measured (glass thermometer, fancy probe, or some stick-on-the-glass tape catastrophe) and you didn't say. That's a pretty crucial point of interest. If it's not heated and the air/water temp drops as significantly as the ambient room temp each night, that's a problem.

If the animal basks a lot (not always normal for this species) it may indeed have something going on beyond the leg affliction. Provide another basking site that is warmer yet (mid nineties) but don't remove or change the one that's working now, for the sake of giving options.

I've never kept this species as low as pH 5.0, but, that's low for many species of "Amazonian" fish, so, it might be low for your sympatric turtle. From what I've seen, fungus-looking issues can also be caused by pH that is too low. That problem is, however, normally with regards to high pH species rather than blackwater species. Perhaps, keep it at a comfy six or six and a half for now? Recall that acidifying treatments for fungus/bacteria used for aquarium fish (such as Aquarium Pharmaceutical's MelaFix) can cause ammonia spikes in the tank. High levels of nitrogenous waste can also be a cause of excessive basking (staying out of invisibly-dirty water). You want to find a way to take those measurements. I've known a person to use pH Down without issue in multiple species tanks, but I don't feel any degree of comfort towards the product. It is an extremely strong solution. Although I'm not a vitalist, I like to acidify water by using dry oak and hickory leaves - a very natural solution to a high pH. You can get them almost anywhere in your state (particularly this time of year), they are easily replaced as the tanins leach out, and they provide an environmental accent. I will include, they'll color the water to a tone more comforable for your turtle - a slight tea hue. Most Amazonian cichlid enthusiasts have come to embrace this hue for the dual benefit it serves their captives (correct pH and sight security, both of which are necessary for your turtle).

Be careful with the betadine, especially if it's not diluted. That is usually used on the shell rather than the soft parts with regards to turtles, and it can have a very abrasive effect on tissue.

Similarly, if it basks excessively, lose the UVB 5.0. This is not normally a strong ray species, at least not at duration, so that thing could wind up burning the animal. I know it sounds contradictory to take away the UV source on a potentially sick animal, but, burn it and those legs will have a whole new problem.

Fish will prove a fine diet, but they do carry parasites, and your animal, as a likely fresh import, may already have an excess of. Periodic treatment for this scenario has proven helpful for some with mata mata.

When a problem like this creeps up, start changing things. Don't be afraid to. You are bound to make mistakes. Everyone makes some with their captives almost (always?) every day and the only ones to be hit hard by this (keepers and animals alike) are those whose keeping regimes are not switched up with hopes for achieving a better tomorrow.

If it really is fungus (superficial slime that easily wipes off), try keeping the water more on the acidic side and use a good aquarium remedy called Fungus Cure from Marine Phameceuticals. It is available at many U.S. pet shops and aquariums. Some prefer the more colorless acriflavin as opposed to the combination of neutroflavin and malachite green B in the above mentioned medication. If it doesn't wipe off and is deeply invasive of the tissue, you may have SCUD, which requires serious injectable antibiotic treatment (see the Aug 28 thread on a sick spotted turtle - the dosages are the same).

I dont see any deep ulcers.My other concern is this turtle sleeps a lot, and hardly enters the water.
Not typical for a Twistneck. Is it possible what I'm seeing is a secondary condition caused by something else?
RI is my first thought.
He does float some when he enters the water to feed. But can balance himself off.
And eats like a pig. Eating is not an issue for this turtle.
It eats superworms,but prefers minnows over everything.
I'll double check the pH, take the charcoal out of the filter and treat the water for a few days.
Of all the turtles I have, and have had, this particular species has me beat.

Have you contacted your veterinarian? He/she has certain diagnostic tests that will answer some of your questions.

X-rays-may reveal a denser lung tissue typical of pneumonia
Blood-will reveal how the immune system is responding to whatever is going on. Is it typical of a bacterial/fungal infection? Are parasites or allergens a major consideration? Are the organs compensated?
Cultures-will define what pathogens are present (but not always what ones are the cause) and what antibiotics they are sensitive too.

Ian

Excessive basking while maintaining a healthy appetite indicates a topical (superficial) condition rather than a systemic condition such as RI. Turtles with open wounds from bite injuries and superfical infections will adaptively spend much time out of water. It is probably related to the condition you describe, although I can't recall much basking with fungal conditions personally. Your pH sounds even lower than I would recommend. Perhaps the temperature is a factor, but can't be sure. Question: do you practice excessive antibacterial procedures, such as regularly sterilizing your set-up? In the absence of a normal benign bacterial flora, fungi can rapidly overgrow (absence of competition). I keep my many turltes in conditions many would consider "dirty", but have not had any fungus in many years.

This was an active turtle in the store. It changed almost as soon as I got him home.
I see no outward signs of an RI. Temps in the tank are around 90* basking, 82* warm side, and low 70's cool side. dropping of course at night.All temps checked with a heat gun. Most of what I read about the twist neck turtle calls for very low pH acidic water.
The fungus seems to have abated, but the basking has'nt.
He is still eating, but I do have to move him to the water. Once he is in the water, the appetite kicks in.
Twist neck turtles are not known as basking turtles
No I dont overly sterilize my setup to allow the normal bloom to take over. I do change charcoal and ammonia remover at the same time, but I only pump out the tank. No bleach or anything
I sterilize perhaps once a year,maybe two.
As far as wounds, as I picked this turtle out, he was grabbed in the jaws of a small gator. Small being around 2.5 ft.
Maybe some internal damage was done? However, as I stated, this species of turtle is the one species that I have had troubles keeping. Even softshells have been long lived with me.
Never any problems with tropical turtles.
I just think I'm missing something with the husbandry of Twistneck Turtles.

Please, don't feel bad about an isolated failure. Even sibling turtles I have owned have turned out dramatically different in their life history under identical conditions. Just remember that this species can inhabit shallow temporary water (i.e. road ruts) in nature.