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I'M BACK!!! Thanx to all that expressed concern. ~~~WARNING: GRAPHIC PIX!!~~~

Jolliff Sep 18, 2005 10:56 PM

I’d first like to thank everyone who expressed concern, emailed, or left phone messages. Even if I was just in your thoughts, I appreciate it. As w/ any bite from a captive, it was a mistake on the keeper’s part. In this case, it was a split second error that almost proved fatal. I have been keeping HOTS for about ten years & have always said “Anyone can make a mistake as we are all human.” As Mr. Harrison stated in his official release, “Bites, he said, are just something snake owners get used to. If you play with guns, eventually you could get shot," he said. "If you handle snakes, eventually you could get bit. It’s a risk." As Duffy pointed out, there are hazards involved in everyday life. Consider the job hazards involved w/ being a foundry or construction worker (both jobs I’ve had) & what about the perils our men in uniform face everyday? These are risks we accept & try to prevent. I did get grazed two years ago & I learned a valuable lesson that day & took precautionary measures to ensure the same mistake did not repeat itself. Unfortunately, we all learn from our mistakes & I will def. make adjustments to prevent this kind of thing from happening again. I am fully aware that these incidents affect more people than the person envenomated & hate to see all the press (which is usually – as in this case – not 100% accurate).
With that being said, this IS what happened for those who are as curious as I am. My friend was @ my place & we were taking pictures of the Ball Pythons we have available. This is his first year doing the “snake thing” so this was quite a traumatic experience for him as well. We were pretty much done when I decided to grab two more Pythons. I was in a hurry & simply opened the wrong drawer (yes, the are labeled). Since I was working w/ the Balls, I had my guard down for a split second & that is all it took. My yearling male Caramel WDB (prob. one of the meanest snakes I have) was waiting to ambush prey. As soon as I opened the cage, I saw a flash of yellow & felt a slight tap. I immediately closed the drawer, grabbed my epi-pens & asked my friend to drive me to the hospital which is about ten minutes away. I called 911 to have them prepare the hospital for a WDB bite & informed them that I needed Cro-Fab as I am allergic to horses (& about everything else for that matter). They traced the call & realized we were right by the Fire Station/EMT. They instructed us to pull in & let the “professionals” take over. As we pulled in, I could feel my body going into Hyper drive like a freshly bitten mouse. I informed the firemen that I had two Epi-pens on hand & I was going to use one as I slammed it into thigh. That was the last thing I remember until I regained consciousness around 3:00 p.m. on Fri. @ OSU Medical Center (Columbus). According to my friend, the firemen didn’t seem too concerned & told him “not to get excited” as they stood there & watched me go into seizures eight minutes after the bite. He started yelling that they had better get move on & said he would transport me himself if they were going to just stand there. They dropped me on the first attempt to remove me from the car but eventually got me to the hospital where we never get snakebites. They resuscitated me (as my lungs had collapsed) & life-flighted me to Columbus (about 1.5 hrs. away by car) where they didn’t expect me to make it. They did cat scans as they thought I may have fluid on my brain. They did perform a slight fasciotomy on my hand to “check compartment pressure” as my fingers were blue. I eventually came around & was in full spirits as I knew this was going to be real serious. I was just glad to wake AND NOT see my whole arm split open. We told them not to but you know Doctors. They had me out of ICU in 24 hrs. & released me 24 hrs. after that. They initially told my wife they didn’t think I was going to make it & couldn’t believe how quickly I recovered. I was not able to find out how many bags of Cro-Fab I received but 3 – 7 was the answer depending on who I asked. At one time, my diastolic blood pressure was 50 & they said the pH level in my blood was “not typical of a living person.” So that is my weekend – closest to death that I’ve ever been. All I can say is don’t believe it can never happen to you & have Epi-pens on hand. I’m not familiar w/ the details of the Rhino bite that took the life of the OH fireman last year, but I believe (?) he died from Anaphylactic shock. I also believe I would not be here today if I didn’t have the Epi-pens on hand. Everyone stresses the importance of having your own anti-venin but that is not what usually kills you w/in fifteen minutes of a bite. So please see your doctors & get some epinephrine – just in case you happen to make that split second error.

P.S. Matt Harris,
I remember that little “Jumping Viper” I stomped. I was making an attempt to do a favor for my friend (your customer = U making $$) in MI & picked that animal up w/out being told anything (by you or him) about it. I am not familiar w/ S.A HOTS & had never even heard of one @ the time. I believe you had just started bringing them in?. It was an irregular patterned animal that looked more like a Copperhead than a Bothrops. I bring the thing home & decide to water the critter & put it on some heat, only to discover why the common name is “Jumping Viper”. I had a whole in the baseboard of my snakeroom (fixed now) & that thing went straight to it & FAST. Never expected that so I had no choice to stomp it before it got “loose” in my crawl space – I sure did feel bad about it. Now that you bring it up, I don’t blame you but it would have been nice if you had given me some (any) background info. on that guy. Of course I should have educated myself but had not planned on providing it w/ anything. Need I remind you that he (your customer) was one of two MI residents bitten by Bushmasters last year (2 yrs. ago ?).? Again, nobody’s perfect but I guess you could be the first....

Replies (24)

the_keeper_73 Sep 18, 2005 11:20 PM

You don't know me and I don't really know you, but I just wanted to say that I'm glad you made such a speedy recovery, though I'm sure you still have a ways to go before it's fully over. As a fellow hot keeper, things like this always concern me not only for the bite victim and family, but for the negative press surrounding it as well. I hope you heal well and get an opportunity to set the story straight in the media, especially concerning the part of what happened at the fire house...8 critical minutes, not acceptable. And as has been said on more than one occasion, this just serves as a reminder that it CAN happen to me.

Christy Talbert Sep 18, 2005 11:27 PM

So glad you are ok!

You're in our thoughts and prayers!

Christy

TimCole Sep 18, 2005 11:48 PM

I am so glad to hear the actual story and that you came through this ordeal. Quite the learning experience for all and good info for being prepared with the epi pens. One of other the reasons I have locks on my venomous cages is to give MYSELF a second or two to remind MYSELF of what is behind door #3. Just a helpful hint with no disrespect to Michael who I have known and respected for years and consider a friend.
-----
Tim Cole
www.Designeratrox.com/
www.AustinReptileService.net
www.AustinReptileExpo.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<
Conservation through Education

zagarus42 Sep 19, 2005 01:13 AM

Mike,

I am very relieved to see you making a speedy recovery. You definitely have been in my thoughts and I have been hoping for the best these last couple of days. I was wondering if you didn't mind discussing more of the details of your bite and treatment through email. I am currently in my second year of medical school in Cincinnati and have a very avid interest in emergency medicine. We are studying many things that pertain to your case, although not in the context of a snake bite, and I see this as an amazing opportunity to educate myself more. I might even be able to help explain some aspects of your treatment if you are interested.

I hope your recovery is uneventful and I look forward to hearing from you whenever things settle back down.

Jason Folt
UC II
foltjr AT email.uc.edu

rabies Sep 19, 2005 02:05 AM

Hi Jason
if you have an interest in the medical management of snake bite in the US then I can strongly recommend that you purchase "Snake Venom Poisoning" by Findlay Russell ISBN 0-87963-015-1. Even though this book is 20yrs old it will give you a good insight on what happens and how to treat a snake bite victim. It all so covers 1 or 2 exotic species.

Regards
John
UK Paramedic
-----
"Its no help to hide behind the statement that snake bite accidents are a rarity and that the average Dr seldom or never will treat one. For the bitten patient, it is a matter of life or death, and the rarity of the event is of no interest to him."

zagarus42 Sep 19, 2005 09:00 AM

John,

Thanks for the reply and advice. I do already have that one though, as well Minton's Venom Diseases. I agree completely, both are great books, if a little outdated. A few other books that I have deal with the topic as well (WROTWH). Does anyone know of any more?? As much as I enjoy these books, studying real cases is always a great way to quiz yourself, if that makes any sense, and learn from other's mistakes.

Thanks again,

Jason

Ryan Shackleton Sep 19, 2005 09:15 AM

There is one, quite expensive($170 the last time I looked into it) that a friend of mine has-The Clinical Toxicilogy of Animal Venoms and Proteins(or maybe poisons?) Anyway, I can't judge how good the book is in relation to others but it does have a list in the back of what antivenoms(pre-CroFab) are available and used for most snakebites. If you want I can try to get the ISBN from him so you can find it easier.

rabies Sep 19, 2005 09:53 AM

Highly recommend "Handbook of Clinical Toxicology of Animal Venoms and Poisons" by Jurg Meier & Julian White ISBN 0-8493-4489-1. Also "Australian Animal Toxins, the creatures, their toxins and care of the poisoned patient" by SK Sutherland, 2nd edition ISBN 0-19-550643x. If you can only afford one then go for the first. There are a few others that I have, but if you get the above mentioned handbook that covers about everything else. Look out for papers published by Prof David Warrell, probably the worlds authority on snake bite.

John
-----
"Its no help to hide behind the statement that snake bite accidents are a rarity and that the average Dr seldom or never will treat one. For the bitten patient, it is a matter of life or death, and the rarity of the event is of no interest to him."

Ryan Shackleton Sep 19, 2005 10:22 AM

.

zagarus42 Sep 19, 2005 10:52 AM

John and Ryan,

Thanks a ton, both those books look great! They will make fine Christmas presents this year, if I can wait that long.

Jason

phobos Sep 19, 2005 06:24 AM

Mike:

Glad to see your back on your feet. Very close call, good that you had the Epi-pens. Something that EVERY hot keeper should have available and you provided a good example why. I was worried while you were comatose they were going to really "split" your arm open. I'm happy to hear they used their knives only a little.

Once again, welcome back

Al
-----
You can take the snake out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of the snake.

rthomse Sep 19, 2005 06:57 AM

I'm very happy you made it.Intial reports didn't sound good at all! Hopefully a full and uneventful recovery will be your's

Bob

goini04 Sep 19, 2005 07:16 AM

Mike,

Welcome back! I am glad to see that you pulled through ok, and that we are finally able to hear the real story coming from you. I am sure that you have a long road for complete recovery ahead of you and I hope that you are able to get through it ok. I live in Columbus, so if you need anything you are more than welcomed to contact me via the link above.

Best wishes and good luck!

Chris
-----
Chris Law
U.A.P.P.E.A.L. (Uniting a Proactive Primate and Exotic Animal League)
Herpetoculture Element Representative

bps516 Sep 19, 2005 07:25 AM

You don't know me but I wanted to say glad to hear that you are better and we'll be praying for both you and your wife. I am originally from Columbus and know that ICU waiting room (as with any of them) can feel like one of the coldest places on earth when you are waiting to hear what's happening to a loved one. Take care!
-----
Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
1-1-0 Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-1-0 Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

Carmichael Sep 19, 2005 08:44 AM

That is a horrific experience that I hope I will never have to go through (20 years of working with hots w/out a bit but as you said, can happen to ANYONE). I can count on one hand how many times I had a slight breakdown of concentration, or, split second lapse of good judgement when working with hots; so far, those instances played out in my favor but I may not be as lucky the next time. Every day, I closely re-examine my protocols and see where improvements can be made...particularly important since I have a young staff who don't have many years of venomous handling under their belt.

I am going to share your story with them so that they know how quickly an innocent mistake can turn into a life threatening situation. Because of this, I am not requiring any staff working with hots to get their own epi pens that will be kept on site at all times (I just got my two yesterday). At least your experience didn't go in vain!

Keep us posted on your progress and hope for a speedy recovery.

Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center
Lake Forest, IL

>>I’d first like to thank everyone who expressed concern, emailed, or left phone messages. Even if I was just in your thoughts, I appreciate it. As w/ any bite from a captive, it was a mistake on the keeper’s part. In this case, it was a split second error that almost proved fatal. I have been keeping HOTS for about ten years & have always said “Anyone can make a mistake as we are all human.” As Mr. Harrison stated in his official release, “Bites, he said, are just something snake owners get used to. If you play with guns, eventually you could get shot," he said. "If you handle snakes, eventually you could get bit. It’s a risk." As Duffy pointed out, there are hazards involved in everyday life. Consider the job hazards involved w/ being a foundry or construction worker (both jobs I’ve had) & what about the perils our men in uniform face everyday? These are risks we accept & try to prevent. I did get grazed two years ago & I learned a valuable lesson that day & took precautionary measures to ensure the same mistake did not repeat itself. Unfortunately, we all learn from our mistakes & I will def. make adjustments to prevent this kind of thing from happening again. I am fully aware that these incidents affect more people than the person envenomated & hate to see all the press (which is usually – as in this case – not 100% accurate).
>> With that being said, this IS what happened for those who are as curious as I am. My friend was @ my place & we were taking pictures of the Ball Pythons we have available. This is his first year doing the “snake thing” so this was quite a traumatic experience for him as well. We were pretty much done when I decided to grab two more Pythons. I was in a hurry & simply opened the wrong drawer (yes, the are labeled). Since I was working w/ the Balls, I had my guard down for a split second & that is all it took. My yearling male Caramel WDB (prob. one of the meanest snakes I have) was waiting to ambush prey. As soon as I opened the cage, I saw a flash of yellow & felt a slight tap. I immediately closed the drawer, grabbed my epi-pens & asked my friend to drive me to the hospital which is about ten minutes away. I called 911 to have them prepare the hospital for a WDB bite & informed them that I needed Cro-Fab as I am allergic to horses (& about everything else for that matter). They traced the call & realized we were right by the Fire Station/EMT. They instructed us to pull in & let the “professionals” take over. As we pulled in, I could feel my body going into Hyper drive like a freshly bitten mouse. I informed the firemen that I had two Epi-pens on hand & I was going to use one as I slammed it into thigh. That was the last thing I remember until I regained consciousness around 3:00 p.m. on Fri. @ OSU Medical Center (Columbus). According to my friend, the firemen didn’t seem too concerned & told him “not to get excited” as they stood there & watched me go into seizures eight minutes after the bite. He started yelling that they had better get move on & said he would transport me himself if they were going to just stand there. They dropped me on the first attempt to remove me from the car but eventually got me to the hospital where we never get snakebites. They resuscitated me (as my lungs had collapsed) & life-flighted me to Columbus (about 1.5 hrs. away by car) where they didn’t expect me to make it. They did cat scans as they thought I may have fluid on my brain. They did perform a slight fasciotomy on my hand to “check compartment pressure” as my fingers were blue. I eventually came around & was in full spirits as I knew this was going to be real serious. I was just glad to wake AND NOT see my whole arm split open. We told them not to but you know Doctors. They had me out of ICU in 24 hrs. & released me 24 hrs. after that. They initially told my wife they didn’t think I was going to make it & couldn’t believe how quickly I recovered. I was not able to find out how many bags of Cro-Fab I received but 3 – 7 was the answer depending on who I asked. At one time, my diastolic blood pressure was 50 & they said the pH level in my blood was “not typical of a living person.” So that is my weekend – closest to death that I’ve ever been. All I can say is don’t believe it can never happen to you & have Epi-pens on hand. I’m not familiar w/ the details of the Rhino bite that took the life of the OH fireman last year, but I believe (?) he died from Anaphylactic shock. I also believe I would not be here today if I didn’t have the Epi-pens on hand. Everyone stresses the importance of having your own anti-venin but that is not what usually kills you w/in fifteen minutes of a bite. So please see your doctors & get some epinephrine – just in case you happen to make that split second error.
>>
>>P.S. Matt Harris,
>>I remember that little “Jumping Viper” I stomped. I was making an attempt to do a favor for my friend (your customer = U making $$) in MI & picked that animal up w/out being told anything (by you or him) about it. I am not familiar w/ S.A HOTS & had never even heard of one @ the time. I believe you had just started bringing them in?. It was an irregular patterned animal that looked more like a Copperhead than a Bothrops. I bring the thing home & decide to water the critter & put it on some heat, only to discover why the common name is “Jumping Viper”. I had a whole in the baseboard of my snakeroom (fixed now) & that thing went straight to it & FAST. Never expected that so I had no choice to stomp it before it got “loose” in my crawl space – I sure did feel bad about it. Now that you bring it up, I don’t blame you but it would have been nice if you had given me some (any) background info. on that guy. Of course I should have educated myself but had not planned on providing it w/ anything. Need I remind you that he (your customer) was one of two MI residents bitten by Bushmasters last year (2 yrs. ago ?).? Again, nobody’s perfect but I guess you could be the first....
>>
-----
Rob Carmichael, Curator
The Wildlife Discovery Center at Elawa Farm
Lake Forest, IL

Jolliff Sep 19, 2005 01:59 PM

Maybe I should by stock in Epi-pens - hopefully everyone will make the purchase.

dave prada Sep 19, 2005 10:48 AM

Mike, I don't know you well either, but I'm glad to hear you're doing well, you were in my thoughts all weekend. Definitely made me think about the risks involved with hots, and how important it is to keep your wits about you at all times. I'm not a hot keeper but a field herper with a big interest in crotalids...I think it's imperative to learn from each others mistakes and try to minimize the risks involved. Thanks for sharing the details of your experience. Real happy you pulled through and hope to see you vending at Hamburg!

Dave Prada

duffy Sep 19, 2005 04:15 PM

How the hell did you manage to type all that with such a fu

duffy Sep 19, 2005 04:19 PM

That's the first post I ever made that somehow censored itself. I was referring to your fuc..um...messed up hand. Wow! What a close call. Glad you're OK. Let's ALL be careful out there.

See you at the show. Duffy

phobos Sep 19, 2005 07:44 PM

Mike:

I'm very happy to see your hand is in great shape considering what & who got a hold of it Damn Surgeons need to keep their knives to themselves.

Please get your blood checked this week in case the physicians forgot to schedule it. Crofab clears your system faster than the venom, thus causing a "rebound syndrome" leaving some active componets to quietly ravage your clotting system.

Get well,

Al
-----
You can take the snake out of the jungle but you can't take the jungle out of the snake.

ribello bertoni Sep 19, 2005 09:23 PM

Glad to hear you're on the road to recovery. See you at Hamburg.

Serpents Den Sep 20, 2005 12:40 PM

Damn, that thing put a hurting on you. It's good to hear you're doing well. Be careful and I'll see you at the next Hamburg Show.

Steve
Serpent's Den
www.SerpentsDen.com

Matt Harris Sep 21, 2005 07:04 AM

Mike,

Are you allergic to bees as well? With that many allergies, aren't you concerned at all about the risks with taking a hit? My belief is that if I knew I had these allergies(which I don't), there is no way in He!! I would be keeping hot snakes.

I would strongly suggest you separate your non-vens from your hots, OR do as I do, handle every snake with a hook. I keep several boas in my hot room, but since I don't treat them as pets, I use hooks on them.

Best wishes on a full recovery.

Matt

Jolliff Sep 21, 2005 06:08 PM

Not allergic to bees or peanuts but that is prob. about it (LOL). I'm allergic to so much I would have to be the bubble boy to stay away from it all. Even w/out the allergies, I think I am equally concerned about a bite - don't think my record is too bad for a HOT keeper of prob. closer to twelve yrs. I'll quit when I'm dead or when we run out of rights (which may be closer than death the way things are going nowadays!!) Anyone can take an IV bite. My buddy in FL has hundreds upon hundreds of cobras & is allergic to horses also (as I am). It is "who we are" & I can't see either of us giving it up. Stupid?? Possibly but I can actually think of alot of other trades that are far more dangerous. I believe it would be a good death compared to dying of old age.? Maybe I've "experimented" a little too much!? Had some time to sit around and watch movies & one line really grabbed me:
A warrior asked another if he believed he could change his own destiny. His response, "A man does what he can until his destiny is revealed to him." Guess it just wasn't my time.....thanx for the support.

Are you allergic to bees as well? With that many allergies, aren't you concerned at all about the risks with taking a hit? My belief is that if I knew I had these allergies(which I don't), there is no way in He!! I would be keeping hot snakes.

I would strongly suggest you separate your non-vens from your hots, OR do as I do, handle every snake with a hook. I keep several boas in my hot room, but since I don't treat them as pets, I use hooks on them.

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