Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I posted yesterday but I can't get into the archives to see if anyone posted a reply so I'm asking again.

It's a small snake (10 - 12 inches) but I believe it may be a juvenile of some kind. It is black, white, and reddish orange checkered but the checks are bigger than a garter snake. It lacks stripes of any kind. It is not blotched or banded and it has no diamonds. It's belly has a black and white pattern. The eyes appear to be round and it's snout is short in comparison to my rat snake. Tempermentally it is skiddish and hides a lot under the water dish. It will only eat fish. The scales are keeled.

ANy help?

By the way I live in northern Oklahoma and this was found in a neighbors yard. We live near a creek and pond.

Is the nose slightly turned up? Is it pretty stout? Could be a hognosed snake... They eat frogs mainly, but probably would eat a fish. If you can't include a photo, you might want to check out the photo gallery and see if you can find one like it there.

The nose is a little flat but it doesn't have the ridge like a hognose. The body is thick and almost triangular. I don't have pic capabilities. I've been searching through every book and picture reference I can find but so many only have adult snakes and all my experience is with rough earth snakes, rat snakes, and garters. I don't believe it's a garter snake or a rat snake. The body's too thick and the head's too short. The reddish orange coloring is bordered by white and alternates with the black along the sides. The saddle is black and white. What other id qualities can I describe to help?

Maybe the red milk snake? Im just grasping at straws here, but take a look at lampropeltis triangulum syspila (red milk snake) or the lampropeltis triangulum multistrata (pale milk). Other than that, without a pic I dont know of anything else, unless it is an escaped pet.
Brian

I don't know about that. Milks have smooth scales, slender bodys, checkered ventral, and normally aren't found around water, let alone eat fish, but the discription does give that idea. I say it's an extreme variant of a garter (red-sided or most likely plains), or northern/midland water snake.

Yep I tend to agree with you. I would really like to see a pic of this snake. Almost got me pulling my hair out!! LOL
Happy Herping
Brian

AFter going through the archive pics, it looks like a cross between an eastern and western hognose but the nose isn't turned up noticeably. Our big concern was whether it was venomous or not as we've had moccassins in our yard and at our neighbors. The patterning is wrong though and the head scales are different. Without digital camera or a scanner, I guess I'll just have to keep guessing. thanks anyway.

Well, if you dont believe it belongs to Nerodia genus, it could be a color variation of Thamnophis, possibly T. sirtalis parietalis, or T. radix (red-sided garter, plains, respectively), w/o the striping. Garters have a subtle patturn of alternation values between ventral scutes. I can't think of any others not belonging to Nerodia or Thamnophis.
How about posting a picture and giving us some vindication?

I would say it sounds like maybe a western plains garter snake. They are pretty variable and sometimes have a reddish/orange hue. They also have a black/white banded look to their bellies. Take a look on the internet for the western plains garter and compare pics. All the pics will look a little different, because this snake is pretty variable. Hope this helps and happy herping!
Brian