Reptile & Amphibian Forums

The owner of the local pet store where I go to college wants to let me work there only on these conditions. I work in just the reptile department which I like that idea, I buy all the reptiles myself and pay for there up keep and she will give me a place to put them and sell them and she will take 30% off the top of each sell. I am seriously thinking of doing this because I would love the money and the chance to kinda run my own business with reptiles. I really want to know if anyone knows a good place to order reptiles. Now I need a place that is not to expensive but is a decent place. I live in Troy, Alabama so somewhere close I figure would be best, meaning somewhere in the southeast. The types of animals I am looking at getting, if I do this, are corn snakes (albino, snow, and normal), ball pythons, water dragons, bearded dragons, vieled chameleons, leopard geckos, maybe some colombian red tails. But basically stuff like that, that is small for the most part and easy to take care of for the most part also. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I hope no one gets offended that I ask for help on this, I am always on these boards and I figured that this is the best place to find people like me but that would know this kinda stuff.

You better check the math on that. I am not sure that you will end up in a balance by the end. 30% seem high if you are looking for any type of profit. I could be completely wrong, which happens alot, but I think that once you factor in the shipping of the animals to you, the fact that you will have to pay for the food and upkeep, along with the fact that either a) not all will be able to sell and/or b) that some may die which would put you into a negative situation. Some of the breeders will be able to give you more information. All I can say is be careful, think it through, and if you do decide to do it, good luck to you and your herp, we wish you the best!
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Bryan, Atlanta GA

1-0-0 Ball Python - Apep
0-1-0 Mountain Horned Dragon - Ki
0-0-1 Aggressive Bearded Dragon - Zeus
1-1-0 Rats... no wait... ROTTEN Little Cats - Ra, Bastet
0-1-0 Little Angelic Kitten - Isis
1-0-0 Horse... whoops... BIG Golden Retriever - Jake
0-1-0 Wife
2-0-0 Kids

This sounds like a headache and a half on soooo many levels. I wouldn't do it.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

you got it.........too much for not enough....

......I sell to pet shops...they triple the prices.......they keep twice as much as I do........that's bad enough.....yet there are alot of people that never heard ofinternet or breeder sales.......so they pay ridiculous prices.....(even worse than the classifieds.)

......tell her you'll work there for an hourly wage.......and take care of the critters.........

she buys them and sells them........you just work for her..

.......you can help her find cheaper wholesale people.....

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She would have to take a pre-determined percentage off the net profit not the entire sale price. Also, is she paying for the electricity? If she were to provide you with a spot in back where you could breed it would be alot more beneficial to you. You could breed something like (just for example) green and brown Anoles, which I believe are pretty prolific breeders, at a very small food and bedding cost to you and sell them for alot higher percentage profit then a Ball Python you paid $45.00 for.

Really, if you are not forced to pay rent or any other overhead, you can at least know what your financial outlays will be ahead of time and plan.

I think the catch is the percentage she receives from the sale, 30% may be way too high..or maybe not?

Alan

Also, my wife owns a hair and tanning salon and everyone who works for her gets 10% off any shampoo, conditioner, tanning lotion...ect. they sell to a customer. In that business 10% (or less) is pretty much the norm., but reptiles may be different.

Alan

No offense, but I dont think the anole idea would work. They are all around my yard. I have attempted to breed them in captivity. They are easy to keep, and easy to breed. When given good conditions, the eggs will even hatch inside the tank without ever being incubated. The babies, however, rarely eat, are easily dehydrated, and basically impossible to keep alive. This is only my experience with green and brown anoles though.
Your oppertunity does sound like a good and hard to come by oppertunity. 30% doesn't sound too bad to me considering that you pay no rent and get free electricity. I would start with very few animals and see how things work out. Boas sound like a bad idea. You don't want to end up feeding a 6-9 ft snake that never gets sold. My biggest worry would be a possible misunderstanding resulting in a law suit.

I said for example. They are not around in my yard in CT, they are $7 a pop at the pet stores here. I just meant that if you buy an animal, even in bulk, your margin for profit will not be as high as if you breed your own. Especially on things that are easier to make reproduce. I agree their will be regional variations on what is popular and what makes sense.

Example:

Green Anole bought in bulk cost you $3.00 and you sell it for $7.00, the store owner takes her 30% approx.($1.20) = $2.80 profit.

Green anole raised in pet store cost you $1.00 (initial animal seed stock and food pro-rated out over time), then sold for $7.00, the store owner takes her 30% approx. ($2.00) = $4.00 profit. This is a 70% higher margin.

Or call it a widget animal, the math/formula is the smae.

Regards,
Alan

"Or call it a widget animal, the math/formula is the same."

I love the widget morphs!

Chris
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mean people suck

Does the pet store owner know how much electricity a few dozen snake enclosures uses? It could significantly raise her monthly utility costs. And if the business owner decides that you must start paying those extra bills, you are going to be in a tight spot. You would be forced to pay the money. (I say "forced" because you may not be in a position to relocate several dozen animals and enclosures to your own home.)

Be careful. Get everything in writing. Be careful again.

Chris
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mean people suck

keeping a few examples of each thing you want to sell at your home and selling them privately. Word of mouth spreads well among reptile enthusiasts, and I would imagine on a college campus there would be lots of people interested in herps. Giving someone else the money seems ridiculous, especially since there is a lot of ways you could get screwed. Most pet stores have a high mark-up on reptiles but that doesn't mean they wind up making much off them.

Cole Maas

This is a very bad idea for the following reasons:

1. She is taking 30% off the top (this sounds like the net sale and not the profit)...this is a HUGE chunk when it all boils down.

2. She is NOT paying for their upkeep...food and bedding gets VERY expensive if the animal doesn't sell quickly.

3. Is she paying for the cages or are you?

4. How old are you? It looks like you are 17-22 (you said you were in college). This may sound like a silly question, but unless you want to put 5-15 years of your life into this, you aren't going to make much at ALL and your grades will drop SIGNIFICANTLY because this venture will eat up A LOT of time.

5. How are you going to pay for these reptiles? Most wholesalers require you to show a EIN (employee ID number) and many require you to use a bank or credit card that is from that store. So will she pay for the animals, then you pay her? Will she pay the animals, then look at how much the reptile sales are and take the cost of the reptile plus her cut out of that?

6. Do you have the money for the startup costs? It is going to cost you at LEAST $500 just to get started...and that's assuming she has the cages for you. If you have to provide the cages, you are looking at least $1500-$2500.

7. Is she including the dry goods into this deal or is it only the reptile animal sales?

Yes it is true that most of the time pet stores will charge 2-4 times their wholesale price...but the secret that they won't tell you is they don't make SQUAT in the sale of the reptile because they have to feed it, house it, and keep it alive. This sounds quite easy, but most wholesalers will NOT refund you for dead animals after 24 hours and many will not refund you AT ALL. Most of pet store's profits in the Reptile/Fish/Bird departments comes from the sale of the setups and dry goods.

Pet stores are a VERY difficult business. The main money maker in our store was dog food and the least profitable area was either the bird or reptile section. Also, since I am living in Alabama, but am not a native, I've noticed that very few people own pets down her in comparison to up north and even LESS people are into reptiles.

Like other people said, this is a MAJOR business venture and unless you get this in writing, being VERY SPECIFIC, BY A LAWYER, you are going to get screwed over royally!

DO NOT DO IT!!! Just say no!

np

>>DO NOT DO IT!!! Just say no!

Please allow me to introduce myself. My name is Scott Solar. I am co-owner of Amazon Reptile Center.

I agree with this post. It is a seriously bad idea.

Despite a previous post, most stores double up.

Let's explore. Buy a snake for $50 sell it for $100. Great! $50 profit. But look how it is split.

Thirty percent ($30) to the store, leaves $70, $50 back in to buy more animals leaves a measly $20. This $20 must cover food, bedding your time and then leave some profit. Yeah right!?!?!?!

I admit your overhead is without rent but this is just not worth it. My store is VERY busy. I can see our numbers and giving you the $20 would kill our business! We could not afford the rent then! It is a serious loser for everyone.
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

NAMED BEST REPTILE STORE IN LOS ANGELES

THERE IS NO MONEY IN SELLING SNAKES AT A PET STORE!! The only money pet stores make is from selling $2 dollar 10gallons for $30 and all the other supplies for the animals.

Unless youre talking about Underground Reptiles or Pro Exotics or some specialty shop that has made a name for themselves by selling top notch animals before they opened a retail location.....(and in a city big enough to have a retail location)

you will lose money. Ive worked for pet stores from Dallas, to Denver, to Montanta, to florida and its always the same story. You'll sell a couple ball pythons a month if you lucky, Ive never sold a king snake or corn snake anywhere Ive worked. A few leapord geckos and bearded dragons and thats it.

If you have the passion for it get a good paying part-time job, buy reptiles that are a good investment and that you like to clean up after and breed them and sell the babies to the pet stores for $5 less than anyone else or at the same price they are paying without the shipping cost.

In a few years I plan to breed the snakes I do have at home. I see this as a good learning experience. I understand it wont pay what a real part time job is and I do like the idea of keeping a few on the side and selling them myself over the net. That way I can order a larger group and get a better deal and the ones I sale I dont have to give away 30%. What I would like to do is see if she will allow me to start my own business and just use her place as a front or storage type deal and sell what I do sell there. Then sell a lot online and any expos around the area that way I get use to the whole expo and internet sales so in a few years, when I do it with my own animals I have experience. What do you guys think about that kinda thing?
Thanks for all the information so far.

It would be much easier and profitable to breed the animals from your home. No splitting profits. No demanding business partner. No legal problems. No limits on store hours. And many more sales (via internet).

I could give you more reasons if you'd like.

Chris
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mean people suck

no, no, no, no, no - store fronts are not necessary you will do more business over the internet work - this situation will only cause you more grief than you need.
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Tosha

"Nihil facimus sed id bene facimus"

7.33.0 Ball Python (Harry and Fluffy and gang)
1.0.0 Angolan Python (Anakin Skywalker)
0.0.1 Green Tree Python (Verdi - yeah I know but my kids love the book)
0.2.0 Feline (Pippen and Pandora)
0.0.1 Desert Tortoise (Pope John Paul aka JP )
2.2.1 Fish (1,2,3,4)
0.0.2 frogs rescued from pool skimmer

What if I were to buy some decent looking stuff for cheap and I know thats bad to look for cheap when trying to build a rep but some cheap stuff is not always bad. Then I keep it in my collection and sell the stuff I buy for a little more than I pay. Then I am getting all the money from it and I am also starting some business and getting my name out as a trustworthy kinda person. How does something like that sound?

As long as you stay away from the pet shop idea.

By the way...why not simply sell offspring to the pet shop owner. You could make the same amount of money with none of the headaches.

Chris
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mean people suck

It's tough to get "decent stuff for cheap." Many times the cheap stuff is dehydrated, underfed, diseased, and has internal and external parasites. Once in a while you luck out, but just like in retail, you get what you pay for.

wait- are you working a normal shift in the reptile dept for free? No way. Reptiles are not exactly hot sellers (fish and birds usually top animal sales), and the pet shops usually make most of their profits selling cages, supplies and food.

Say you buy 10 ball pythons at $20 ($200 shipped) and you sell them for $60 each all in one week. That is $600. If your "employer" is taking 30% "off the top", that means gross- so you have to fork over $180 to her. Subtract that and the original $200, and you have $220.

You mentioned you are going to college, so I'll assume this is part time- 20hrs/wk
$220/20 = $11/hr. If it's full time (40hrs) then that gets cut to $5.50/hr. Then again, you might not move a reptile for an entire week- then you worked for free, and still are out $200. Pet stores also don't like to set animals up properly. They tend to use pretty cage decor that is impossible to sanitize and like the animal to be in full view- which invariably stresses most animals. You could end up owning and housing animals that are stressed and faring poorly.

But this brings forth another question- what happens if someone else sells an animal when you are not working? Do you plan to offer replacements if the animal dies within a certain time period? If so, who eats that cost? Also, this scenario assumes you put no extra money into upkeep. Do you breed your own food, or will you be expected to pay retail for rodents from the pet store?

Ahh- and then there are taxes. If you are on the payroll, it will be a lighter load, but if not- you get to pay "self-employment" tax- which is just a fancy way of saying you get to pay what a normal employee pays the portions that the employer normally pays.

Find out the details- find out how many and what kind of reptiles usually sell at this store- or if they are just selling the wrong types of animals (feeding bps and beardies are hot pet sellers, and actually make decent pets) If reptiles were very profitable at this store, I doubt the manager would be so quick to offer up this deal. You could do well- but do yourself the favor of working out the details in advance and get it in writing! If you do decide to do it, I'd suggest a trial period of 4-6 weeks. Then you can decide if it works and possibly even re-negotiate.

good luck!

K. Royer
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Kassandra Royer
Royer Reptiles

Well what it would be is that the setups and care would be done by me. I would only work the random hours I have when I am not in school. I am not employed there and I was ensured that all taxes would be paid by her. Food wise, she can get frozen and I am going to see if she will let me get those from her at the cost she pays. I understand that this can be expensive but I think if I can make even 20 bucks in the end, then its worth the expereince of selling.

...and looking at the situation with a bit of bias. Most everyone here deals in internet sales. Maybe we are simply assuming that you also want to persue a home-based internet sales business as an end goal. If so, then this pet shop thing is not a wise idea. Stay at home.

However, if your end goal is to someday run your own retail pet store, then the experience inside the pet store may be a good beginning.

It's your dream.

Chris
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mean people suck

I think this is a bad idea. Pet stores dont make money off the aniamls. They make money off selling supplies. Why do you think Petsmart and Petco really only sell supplies, and some very simple animals. I have worked for Petco, and its really funny when they put their $79.99 ball pythons on sale for $44.99 and everyone will buy them, and spend $200 in supplies, then buy feeders for the next 5 years. The reptile dept just got shot in the foot, but the pet store more than makes up for it when it sells cages and feeders. You wont be selling this, the owner will. You lose.

If you really want to do well at this, make her let you sell all the feeders rodents (live and frozen) and crickets and the reptiles. Sell Ball Pythons, corns, pacman frogs, things like this. She makes money on supplies, you make money on feeders. You wont make any money on reptiles. Infact, you will be lucky to get good stuff for cheap enough to sell. You will need to start watching the market. Now is a good time to buy Corns.... go to a show and get a bunch (not really, just if you had a store), wait till aug and buy a hundred lot of balls... so on. This will help cut your costs. You will soon find what most reptile people want and keep are not whats going to sell fast. You need to turn around animals quickly to make money. You will have to order $1000 each order just so the shipping cost wont hurt you. Reptile wholesellers will ship the good stuff on your first order, but from then on you get the same crap everyone else gets... half dead geckos, tails broken off, shorted orders. Shorted orders can kill you if they dont send half the order, they will still pack the boxes half full, so now you have to pay full shipping. I am not saying they all do this, but its a hard business. You can make alot of money, but only really in supplies and feeders. I would be really amazed if you broke even after things die, people steal/scam, eat too much, eat too little (skinny lizards dont sell).... etc.

Ben

OK- in addition to all the other points about profitability...

Even if she pays the SALES tax (that was assumed in my original example), you are still left paying the income taxes. All of them. If you make over $400 in a year in this endeavor, you are legally obligated to pay taxes. If you are set up as sole proprietor (which is risky enough to write books), you don't need an accountant and file your own tax returns. The "self-employment" tax is 15.3 percent and covers medicare and social security. You still have to pay federal income tax, as well as state and even city taxes depending on where you live. She can't pay these taxes for you- if she paid you more to cover them- it would just be more "income" to be taxed. Even if you were an employee, she'd only be paying a small portion of them.

Another point- good luck getting wholesale animals that are eating f/t. You will most certainly need a source of live feeder rodents.

Now, if you are studying business or you are interested in retail sales, than the endeavor might be worth something on that scale. How much is the learning experience worth to you? Set a price, and when the bill goes over that, get out. Just make sure if you go that route that you are actively thinking about the experience as a learning method.

K. Royer

>>Well what it would be is that the setups and care would be done by me. I would only work the random hours I have when I am not in school. I am not employed there and I was ensured that all taxes would be paid by her. Food wise, she can get frozen and I am going to see if she will let me get those from her at the cost she pays. I understand that this can be expensive but I think if I can make even 20 bucks in the end, then its worth the expereince of selling.
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Kassandra Royer
Royer Reptiles

I was caught up in a similar venture 4 years back with a marine aquarium shop. The money man was a client from the past, and he said that if I designed the shop and helped him run it, that he would give me one third of it and one third of the profits. I put at least 3000 hours into that shop in the first year and a half, and only 450 dollars in my pocket. There was always something that happened to take away from profits. You don't make a lot of money in the pet store business. You could make much more working at a shop and doing maintenance on peoples fish tanks. Trust me, I made 50 a visit minimum for all 20 of my maintenance accounts and more on an average day there then 18 months at the shop.

Keep this thing a hobby and work for heron the side. Your best bet is to work for her for store credit only on the condition that she sells everything to you at cost. This way you can build up your own stuff and save a ton of money in the long run. I had this deal at a shop before I moved and now I have enough equipment as I could use in a year. Have fun with it, there has to be a reason she is offering this to you. If she thought she could make money off of this, she would be doing it herself.
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1.21 ball pythons
1 speckled kingsnake
1 snapping turtle
1.0 argentine horned frog
1.1 English Bulldogs