Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Someone earlier said that they use panacur on their leos as a precaution. Could I do the same with my beardies and leos. How much do you use on leos? and how much for a adult beardie? what about week old beardies? will this hurt the beneficial bacteria as well as any worms? how often do you use it? is panacur or something more natural like parazap better?

IMO you should never use meds unless you know there is a problem or very experienced in detecting the signs of a problem. More natural methods like parazap I would recommend over a drug and allow the dragons own immune system to develop and deal with them.

Proper lights, heat, diet and supplements go a lot further in avoiding problems to begin with, but they do sometimes happen with even the best of care and when the do, thats when you should have an animal checked and treated if necessary

panacur is pretty safe, it has a margin of saftey up to 5,000 times normal dose in mammals, that pretty much means you can't overdose it. We use it on tiny puppies and kitties all the time at my vet hosp with no prior postive fecal. I give everything that comes in my door panacur as a precaution. Mader says the does is 50-100mg/kg once and repeat in 2 weeks, Klingenberg says 25mg/kg once and repeat in 2 weeks I have never had a problem with it causing a sterile gut (when you kill off all the good bacteria too) Panacur is not an antibiotic, it is an antiparasitic. Off topic but metronidazole which is an anti amoeba drug is often used as an appetite stimulator, THAT causes a sterile gut.
Here again I have never used or seen parazap so I cannot tell you about it, but Speaking from experience, I work in a vet clinic with a holistic doctor, we have many many many people ask for natural dewormers only to come back when that didn't work to get the chemical ones. We are the first to admit our natural dewormers don't work but we offer them anyways.
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DogStar

"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." --Antoine de Saint Exupery

I agree pretty much dog star. I don’t necessarily give it unless I have a positive fecal but since I can do my own fecal exams it isn’t that big of deal. My vet understands that I have a lot biological training and know what I am looking at and gives me my pnacure as I need it.
I think if more people understood how fenbendazole works on the molecular level they would be much less weary of it. Since it binds to 3-tubulin astructural protein that blocks polymerization of tubulin into microtubules, which damages the integrity and the transport function of cells in parasites cell division is not possible. If cells can’t divide parasites can’t live. This is worm specific if it affected the animal given the drug this way than you can be sure that it would suffer the same problem as worms in that it cellular respiration would cease to work.

Mat price

Hi
i have used 5,6 times panacure in 1 1/2 year and i stil got hookworms and flagelates.
i gave on last time double as they discribe but i stil got hookworms.
i gave one time and then again after 14 days again some panacure.
parazap have killed the hookworms here ,what panacure dith not.
yep i got the good dosis and i whas going to best vet of the netherlands.
then after 7 days tea 7 days no tea and then again 7 days tea i go to the docter to take a fecal exam.
then she not found any thing i whas so happy .
i stil used it and i not been to a veterian in 1 year now i have 8 adults beardies and i got 120 babies this year.
i noticed the parasites can built up resistent against the panacure and then it wil not work any more.
also panacure not kill the egg thats why you need to give it after 14 days again.
parazap does kill the eggs and then break the cycle right away.
also panacure killed here the good bacterias of the tummy and then digestion whas a problem to .
it take a whole time to get bacterias back in there gut.
so for me never and never panacure again i learn it helpt not for me.

i not say you not should use ,panacure, but i speak from me own expirience.
byeeeeeeee

Many many many things become resistant to many many things, this does not mean you shouldn't consider it
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DogStar

"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." --Antoine de Saint Exupery

In his more recent publications Dr. Klingenberg suggests fenbendazole (Panacur) as the preferred drug for treating protozoa. His own data indicates that it is actually more effective then metronidazole (Flagyl) for Giardia and other flagellates.

T.B

You post was informative, thank you.

But I have to disagree with one comment. Dosing with panacur when not needed has been suspect in causing prolapse in bearded dragons and other lizard reptiles. Mammal drugs can have very different effects on lizard species.... effective, but different side effects

I like you would also not hesitate to use it if an animal that came in was showing other signs, but I would not use it across the board as a preventative.

I think parazap has been around long enough and used by many people to show that it is effective in clearing bearded dragons of some parasites with no poor side effects. Since you work at a holistic vet clinic and have others that request a natural remedy and the ones you advise do not work, you might want to get a hold of the makers of this product and talk to them, maybe try it in the clinic and have something to give to your clients that is effective.

right now I have no worms in any of my critter, lol, so it's no use
Hey I go with what works, thanks for the info about the prolapses though. All the literature I have ever read from sources I trust say there are no side effects.

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DogStar

"Many have forgotten this truth, but you must not forget it. You remain responsible, forever, for what you have tamed." --Antoine de Saint Exupery

Is that what works for many reptiles, do not have the same affects on bearded dragons, or side effects........ Why? we have no idea, bearded dragons have not been studied very much as they are not that old in captivity and funding is very limited for reptiles in general.

It's like Ivermectin can kill a chelonians outright, even in small doses, but is effective and harmless in other reptiles... It has also been known to knock out bearded dragons for days!

Fortunately there are several researchers working with bearded dragons now and I am sure in the next few years we will see many more reports and information on them, for now, mostly what we have to go on is other owners and breeders experiences. A community pooling information and knowledge until there are professional medical reports.

At one time is was thought that bearded dragons where more susceptible to adenovirus, but what was found out was that there were a few breeders that had it in their colonies who were selling a lot of babies and adults with it. once they stopped selling.... adenovirus has almost disappeared this year from bearded dragons, were last year and the year before it was considered epidemic.

The more we think we know the less we realize we know. I am open to more information and findings, but they should be documented or the testers information sited.

I have changed my opinion that bearded dragons can live without UVB light sources due to information I have been provided recently. I still do not think it is the *best* for them unless it is someone that has excellent routine, diet, supplement and monitoring. I still have strong feelings that it may cause less growth in them..... time will tell us on that. Until then, mine remain under UVB lights

Well, you know, aside from the worms (or lack thereof), ParaZap will help to build up the dragon's immune system, so that in the event they do get something, it hardly bothers them at all.

So we supplement with parazap even if they've not been diagnosed with parasites.
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Axe
The Reptile Rooms

Geez, You guys should order Parazap so you have something natural that works!!
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TheClassyLizard

just because something is "natrual" doesn't mean it won't be found later after prolonged use to have negative effects, there are plenty " natrual products out there that turned out pretty bad.