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Imported Piebald Hets...

wlinville Sep 22, 2005 12:35 AM

Has anyone ever heard of people picking piebald hets from CH imports and proving them out? I picked through a bunch of imports and found 2 girls that have great het pied markers. I have pleanty on het pieds, so I know exactly what they look (can) like. I know het pied markers are hit and miss, but these girls look good.

The reason I ask is Piebalds where proven in the US, and I would think most of the captive stock would be here in the US. Now it is poss they found more and are using them to breed.

Has anyone actually SEEN CH imported piebalds?

Ben

Replies (8)

RandyRemington Sep 22, 2005 06:43 AM

I bred a pet store girl with markings that looked similar to those seen in many het piebalds to a 50% chance het pied male with the markings but only hatched two normals. I loaned that girl out to a 100% chance het pied with the markings this year but she didn't produce.

I don't believe they are doing captive breeding of ball pythons in Africa. At least not in order to mix the babies with the ones from eggs and gravid females they dig up. It's just too hard to get wild caught adult females to breed in captivity so I suspect they spend their time looking for more wild bred animals rather than trying to breed their own. Or if they did breed a special animal they would keep the babies separate.

However, I do believe that hets for many morphs should be distributed in the wild at fairly high rates. I've heard of multiple cases of imported/pet store females proving het albino. The hard part in figuring how common hets are in the wild is not knowing how much ball python move around and so how much the imported homozygous morphs are created by localized inbreeding. If het piebalds where randomly distributed at 1 in 200 wild animals it would result in 1 in 40,000 random pairings being het X het and 1 in 160,000 ch babies being homozygous piebald. With about 150,000 wild bred ball pythons harvested in Africa each year the 1 in 200 wild het estimate could produce a piebald every year or two and 750 exported hets a year. If the distribution of the gene isn't random then a lower percentage of hets could have produced the imported piebalds that started the cb line and add to it periodically.

The big problem is how common is it for non het pieds to have similar markings? I’ve not seen the strong markings (3 scale wide white belly with thick dark lines on both sides for the full last 1/3 of the snake) very often outside of my pied project. But then some of the project ones that I think are hets have fairly subtle markings. I’ve seen posts by people claiming as high as 50% of normals have the marking but I think that is either an extreme exaggeration or the mark is being interpreted very loosely. If you where to look for very strong markings I’d be surprised if you found over 1%. But even then what would your chances be of getting one of the imported hets vs. a random look-alike? Probably a lot better than 1 in 200 but still not a sure thing.

So, I don't think it's terribly likely that your two imported girls are het piebalds but if you didn't have to pay much of a premium for them and now that you have them it's definitely worth trying them just in case they aren't look-alikes.

ChrisGilbert Sep 22, 2005 08:56 AM

It is possible, although not likely.
I do know of a local breeder who bred his Het Pied male to seemingly normal females (three WC), and in one clutch produced a Pied.

The origin of captive Piedbalds came from the wild. Long before Pete proved the gene recessive, people where importing Pieds from Africa. It is possible then that related animals are still in the wild and breeding, ith a "chance" that there are hets out there.

zefdin Sep 22, 2005 09:16 AM

Could you post pics of their bellies?

CJBianco Sep 22, 2005 09:25 AM

...not too long ago (2005) about a forum member breeding his Heterozygous Lavendar Albino with two (2) CH adult females and both females produced Lavendar Albino hatchlings?

And when you consider the amount of years (thousands) these animals have been procreating in the wild, it wouldn't surprise me at all if 1:100 CH/WC animals is heterozygous for some kind of popular morph (Albino, Piebald, Ivory, etc.) In fact, I should think it is very well expected.

Chris
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mean people suck

zefdin Sep 22, 2005 09:54 AM

Didn't someone write on this forum I believe, awhile back, how a researcher had found that all the Pieds that come out of Africa have been coming from one mountainous area? I am not sure what kind of natural range a Ball Python has in the wild, but it is not impossible to believe that, if you have a contained gene pool, certain genetic traits, features and behaviors might develope and express themselves only in the animals contained in this one area.

Charles Darwin may be dead but not forgotten...huh.

Regards,
Alan

CJBianco Sep 22, 2005 10:50 AM

Charles Darwin was a hack. (Just kidding.) The genetic trait could very well be confined to a single area. Impassible mountains and rivers could isolate a small population. It could also just as easily be spread throught the entire wild population one quarter-mile at a time. Who knows? What is the natural range of the ball python?

Chris
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mean people suck

mkreptiles Sep 22, 2005 11:33 PM

If i am not mistaken there has only been one pied to ever come from africa and we all know how that story ended!

Mike

CJBianco Sep 23, 2005 06:09 AM

Actually there have been several wild Pieds from Africa. According to Pete Kahl, there have been recordings of wild Pieds in Africa since at least 1966. And Pete's was not the first one imported into America. Nor the second.

Chris
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mean people suck

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